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Thread: Seroquel vs. Trazodone for sleep

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    Default Seroquel vs. Trazodone for sleep

    Hi All,
    So I have really bad insomnia. Due mostly to very high dose baclofen I am on and serious post nasal drip.
    I tried trazodone a couple times a long time ago and it did not work and I was a zombie the next day.
    Seroquel seems to help but I can't take more than a 1/4 of a pill. I took a half last night and did not sleep like I had hoped. Now I feel like a zombie. I have never had Thorazine but I can imagine it's a lot like this. I feel like one of those characters in "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest".
    So I may go back to the Seroquel at 1/4 of a pill but I have to say I still do feel a little devoid of emotion on that.
    If I try the trazodone again, suggestions on dosage and when to take and so forth?
    Ambien is real hit or miss for me. Lunesta I will never go back to as that taste it leaves me with is unbearable. Benzos don't work well because of the Baclofen I am on and that's Gaba b agonist.
    Thanks for your help


  2. #2
    @COSGringo ~

    When you say you've used benzos....do you only mean the anti-anxiolytics (xanax, valium, ativan, etc.) or have you actually used the benzo sleepers/sedatives....like Dalmane or Restoril? If not, you could possibly try those. Ambien is a cousin to a benzo.....very like a benzo but not technically one. I think it's actually a little worse than the actual benzos due to the risk of amnesia factor.

    Trazodone is an old anti-depressant with a side effect of causing sleepiness.
    Seroquel is an anti-psychotic and mood stabilizer....and would be in the same ballpark as thorazine and unless you're a schizophrenic, etc....would surely make you feel like a zombie too.
    Do you remember what dose of trazodone you took a long time ago? It would have been anywhere from 25 mg. to 150 mg. (general range of dosages prescribed....most are around 50 mg. with 150 mg. being on the pretty high end).

    There are some additional newer sleeping medications....including Rozerem, Sonata and Silenor.
    Last edited by dfitz; 05-12-2012 at 02:59 PM.

  3. #3
    Seroquel is a nasty drug. I sometimes take 50mg when nothing else works and have a hangover the entire next day, sometimes lasting two days. Just look at the side effects. That's one crazy nasty list. Have you tried OTC meds like diphenhydramine? I know you want to stay away from benzos, but have you tried Midazolam?

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    I've done the diphen stuff and the doxy but that's hit or miss too. I might switch to it again for a try. Benzos I take for the SE's from the Baclofen when I am having them but they really don't do much just help a bit. I have not tried versed and not sure how I would even get that to be honest. My insomnia is more of a mid type. I can get to sleep usually but I don't stay asleep and I thought versed was more to get you going but what do I know.
    I've done melatonin, tryptophan, and all that other natural stuff. I might try the doxy again and see how that works since I have post nasal drip. Thx

  5. I've been on both swroquel and trazodone for sleep. Currently I'm on 200mg of trazodone and 45mg of mirtazapine for insomnia and depression. From my understanding 200mg is a high dose of trazodone for sleep, but it works for me and I function just fine the following day. It's also only $8 for 30 200mg doses without insurance.

    The seroquel caused lucid dreams and was exorbitantly expensive. I think it was over $400 a month 30 50mg doses without insurance.
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    Oh dfitz, sorry missed your post. Benzos I've tried a lot. Klons used to work well but again any of the Gaba A stuff doesnt seem to do it. What's in restoril? I don't think I've had that one

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    The seroquel and the trazodone I have are both 100mg so the sero when I normally use it would be about 25mg. Trazodone I am not sure how much I should use.
    Last edited by COSGringo; 05-12-2012 at 03:06 PM.

  7. Restoril (temazepam) is another benzo that is mostly scripted for severe insomnia.

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    I am on 12.5-25mg of seroquel for sleep. I am under a lot of supervising. I am part a brain study for chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE).....concusions caused from years of football. CTE caused EXTREME insomnia. Seroquel has been a miracle for me. At such low doses it does not effect the serotonin in the brain but rather acts as a very potent antihistamine.....think benadryl X10. Some say they have rebound effects at low doses...even 25 mgs...I have none....I can forget it on a trip and my insomnia is the same as before the drug. No other effects. Z drugs (lunesta) does not promote quality sleep....its more of a hypnotic, u forget ur not sleeping.

    In this program I have had dozens of sleep studies. Seroquel even at 12.5 mgs produced EXTREMELY good quality of sleep. I am a big guy....I powerlift and weigh between 330-380 and I can tell u 25 mgs knocks me out. Was groggy at first upon awakening now its just like a normal morning.

    The one side I do have is night eating. I usually eat well...when I bulk for a powerlifting meet I up good calories (I will eat 10-12 chicken breasts a day as an example)...but seroquel makes me CRAVE sweets....I can eat a gallon of icecream.....or 12 Hershey bars....I have found this a problem in trying to keep a healthy diet.
    Helpful billyboy, COSGringo Rated helpful

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    Hmm maybe. I would have to find a good source. But again not sure about benzos as they don't seem to do much for me since I am on Baclofen. The baclofen is well worth the SE's though.

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    I am thinking that seroquel doses I have are too large. I am pretty sure they are 100mg so now I am thinking that half is just way too much. No wonder why I have no feelings at all today. It's tough to cut them even down to 1/4's. I see they are a bit pricey. Trazodone is cheap as heck but I think Doxy is what I will try tonight since I haven't used it in a long time and I have that allergy thing too.
    Last edited by COSGringo; 05-12-2012 at 03:19 PM.

  10. #10
    @COSGringo ~

    I found that the biggest problem with trazodone is that it doesn't help you STAY asleep. Can help you fall asleep but if you wake up a few hours later, taking more doesn't seem to work for some reason.

    As far as what to use, it would depend on what you used in the past. The usual dosages seems to be in the 50 mg. range. They also have these interesting trapezoid-shaped pills scored in thirds (150 mg. total) so that you can take 50, 100 or 150 mg., depending on how many thirds of a tab you take.

    Seroquel I'd hate to use for sleep due to it causing ravenous appetite and apparently blood sugar/diabetes problems in a percentage of the population. There is apparently a class-action lawsuit but can't remember the details.

    There is more than one type of benzo. There are the "anti-anxiolytics"....with various sub-types (used for muscle relaxation....often valium and for anti-seizure meds...often clonazepam, etc.) and then there are what are called "sleepers/hypnotics". The benzos in the anti-anxiolytic category often help a great deal for sleep....but are not specifically for sleep. But Dalmane (a much older benzo sleeper) and Restoril (the newer benzo sleeper....which has been around for a while but not as long as Dalmane has).

    What happened was that ambien, a relative of a benzodiazepine but not technically one....and put on the market specifically FOR sleep....became the go to drug for doctors when prescribing for a patient with insomnia. So Restoril (and prior to that, Dalmane) kinda ended up on the back burner due to ambien.

    With all the difficulties with benzos and physical dependency/addiction/diversion stuff....they've come out with Lunesta, Rozerem, etc....as safer alternatives.

    And just some history....back in the time before Dalmane and the rest of the benzos....the barbiturates were the main sleepers....particularly nembutal, tuinal, placidyl, etc. Then the benzos kinda turned them into dinosaurs and they ended up rarely used any more. I was really surprised to see Placidyl show up in reference to the death of Anna Nicole Smith. I'd not seen Placidyl referred to for decades and wasn't even sure they made/manufactured it any more.

    For me....diphenhydramine has the opposite effect and makes me agitated/speedy....and this apparently happens to certain other individuals also....but it's considered one of the safest sleepers.

    EDIT: @Kelly15120 ~

    Seroquel doses in the range of 12.5 mg. to 25 mg. are the ones they are supposed to start out with and are considered the safest. But there are many who are put on dosages of 100-300 mg.....not always for sleep....but for various psych. issues and diagnoses.

    I can't even imagine taking 300 mg. of seroquel. I won't take it because it causes ravenous appetite for many and like you referred to, intense sweets cravings. And the problem is that once you begin getting sleepy/somnolent....your judgment kinda goes down the crapper and the sweets cravings kick in and people will go and eat all sorts of junk they wouldn't normally eat. Lots of people are apparently pissed at seroquel specifically for this reason.

    The other thing is that all psych meds, to varying degrees, have the potential to alter your metabolism and then you can end up with weight control problems even IF you don't eat the junk and sweets.

    It's a shame that it's causing the appetite/sweets issues for you since it sounds like it works great at low dose for your insomnia. It sounds like issues with eating sugar and junk are important to you.
    Sheesh....12-15 chicken breasts. I love chicken too but prefer the dark meat. And I eat low carb and no sugar....so seroquel for me? No. Would likely cause me lots of problems and weight control is a big deal to me. I work too hard to have seroquel mess it all up.
    Last edited by dfitz; 05-12-2012 at 03:29 PM.

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    Well Traz is out then. Too bad since it's so cheap. I don't think the benzos really work for me know that I am on Baclofen but perhaps restoril or something if I can find it as my doc won't prescribe that. Just ambien or lunesta. I am done with lunesta and having that old dirty nickel taste on the back of my tongue the whole next day. I enjoy food too much for that.
    I think I am done with the seroquel, too. I see it's a zombie drug. I don't need that.
    I will just cycle between some things. I would try those other options but I don't think I can get them from a reliable source sadly.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by COSGringo View Post
    Well Traz is out then. Too bad since it's so cheap. I don't think the benzos really work for me know that I am on Baclofen but perhaps restoril or something if I can find it as my doc won't prescribe that. Just ambien or lunesta. I am done with lunesta and having that old dirty nickel taste on the back of my tongue the whole next day. I enjoy food too much for that.
    I think I am done with the seroquel, too. I see it's a zombie drug. I don't need that.
    I will just cycle between some things. I would try those other options but I don't think I can get them from a reliable source sadly.
    Do some searching through the threads and you will find reliable sources. It might take a while, but it's worth it. After a lot of searching and talking with people, I can practically get anything.
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    Well I have found places and when I get there they no longer take visa and such. A lot are WU and these are deal killers for me. Every time I think I find one I can feedback that they did not ship or some mess. I really don't want to play those games.
    I have one reliable source for my baclofen (which I don't use often since I have a scrip), trazodone, seroquel, and a few things but nothing like what we've been talking about.
    Thanks for your help.

  14. #14
    I would not suggest Seroquel. I was on it a couple of times and did not like the way I felt. I took it all daily. I also used Trazadone for YEARS and it was my go-to sleeping medication. I feel like it is a really safe pill - even in large dosages. I took 300mg a night. It unexpectedly stopped working for me about a year ago. (Note: I am one of those people who kind of freaks out when I don't get enough sleep - this was *very* disturbing.) I went back on Ambien (10mg) and it works fine. I do build up a tolerance to this medication - I hate that part of it. I do try to keep myself at my prescribed dosage and am able to do that 99% of the time.

    Good luck @COSGringo - I hate HATE not being able to sleep!
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    so iGogh, on the Traz did it help you stay asleep? That's my problem and as a start what would you suggest and when to take it? I have 100 mg tabs.

    *This post was auto-merged. The following text was added 34 minutes after the last post:*

    what about pheno? Is that a big mistake waiting to happen?
    Last edited by COSGringo; 05-12-2012 at 04:12 PM.

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    Yeah...Trazodone...I have an awful sleep pattern. Doc gave me some with a gleam in her eye...Crap is garbage IMO. Like @dfitz said, it'll make you sleep, but not stay asleep. Amen to that. (for me anyway)..

    I told one friend I got put on it (very smart fella', high IQ).etc..and funny as hell)...He laughed his balls off..He said "They STILL prescribe that stuff??"..wtf!!! lol!!". I was on 100mg's...Don't like 'em. Ativan knocks me on the butt and I sleep soundly, but I don't personally want to be popping Benzo's almost every night before Night-Night Time, but you gotta' do what you gotta' do sometimes.

    @estodol1

    Wow - 200 mg's is a lot..Holy Mackerel...As long as it is working for you. That is good. Careful with that stuff.T he doc had me on it with a very high dose of an anti-depressant and I was a walking OVI, DUI (on prescribed legal meds) and didn't even know it. A lot of people are and the law doesn't care if it's an Anti-Depressant, Trazodone, whatever - They will nail you.
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  17. #17
    You also do have to take into account that Trazodone is an SSRI, not a benzo or anything else, so if you do not react well to SSRIs or are taking other antidepressants/SSRIs in combination...well, always the risk of serotonin syndrome or an adverse reaction.
    I hated that stuff. I was a zombie.
    Never tried Seroquel but there is the weight gain side effect from that drug, less common in small sleep doses though.
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  18. Anti tricyclics like trazodone, elavil and doxepin are pretty much worthless if you have problems - falling asleep and staying a sleep.

    To take care of the the falling asleep part I take an atypical hypnotic like ambien, lunesta or sonata. To stay a sleep I take an antipsychotic like seroquel or zyprexa.

    Just my advice for avoiding tpyical benzo's at bedtime.

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    Thx all. The baclofen is not a SSRI or anything like that. It usually used for people that have ALS. It's an experimental treatment for people that have alcohol issues. It does work and it's amazing.
    I think I am done with seroquel, I am like a zombie today. Traz does not sound like a fit. Probably just stick to the basics at least tonite and revisit some of those other options.

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    Baclofen put me out like a light. Phenibut, an OTC supplement with a very similar chemical structure and mechanism of action, also worked very well for sleep, but left me kind of groggy and hungover the next day.

    Tolerance does occur to the sleep-inducing effects of phenibut (don't know about Baclofen), and it you become dependent on Phenibut, nothing else in the world except Phenibut or another GABA-B agonist will help you sleep. The rebound insomnia is profound. Use twice a week at most, cycle with other sleep aids if insomnia is more than twice weekly.
    "Tolerance to the anxiolytic effects (of BZD's) probably does not occur"


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