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Thread: Any Sleeping Meds that are REM friendly?

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    4myhealth is offline Member
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    Default Any Sleeping Meds that are REM friendly?

    Title is self-explanatory -- the REM phase of sleep is when your brain does much of the data processing that helps preserve memory. Bendiaozopenes and Ambien both interfere with it. Well actually Stage 3 & 4 of sleep also are cognition friendly -- just wondering if anyone has any insight or info on what the most cognition friendly pharmaceutical might be.

    And don't say Ambien or Klonopin. Tried them both years ago and both trashed my short term memory.
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    couldn't help you but to mention the 2 drugs you named being a psych student, ambien will just put you to sleep not keep you asleep, clonazepam will help you stay asleep and my pdoc swears it helps with stage 3 and 4 but I disagree, I still wake easily in REM sleep on higher levels of clonazepam. Stopping substance abuse has helped tremendously with getting a good nights rest. But I fully agree there is a memory problem with daily benzodiazepine use with me at least.
    Last edited by poohluv; 05-22-2011 at 02:46 PM.

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    Maybe try over-the-counter sleep aids for a REM sleep aid? Have you had herbal teas? Valerian root may help, but don't use it if you take any other sedatives.

    That tea smells like hot shit, but the taste is OK with honey. LOL, I LOVE fruit tea and once, someone in my house bought some Valerian root tea - and since I ran out of all my fruit teas not knowing what it is - I opted for hers instead. When it was cooking in the microwave, people started looking around the house because we thought the dog had shit in the house, but it was the stench of the tea.

    IDK, I only take prescription base meds..... maybe the herb stuff will help.
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    On another web discussion board someone mentioned trimipramine (Surmontil). Take a look at the wikipedia entry.

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    Thanks, nj754! Just looked up Surmontil, and it does look like the kind of sleep aid I'd been hoping existed.

    I've tried Valerian -- it makes me sluggish but not sleepy. Think part of my problem is that a few months ago I tore a muscle in my shoulder and have been unable to maintain the same fitness regime as before -- so I just don't sleep as deeply.
    Last edited by Kris; 05-30-2011 at 05:12 PM. Reason: Please do not ask for sources for certain medicine
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    Theres an old Z-class drug (Sonata aka zaleplon), related to Ambien and Lunesta. According to its wiki page, it doesn't interfere with sleep architecture like Ambien does. It worked for my sleep onset problems well, but it has a very short half-life, so if you have trouble staying asleep it may not work for you.

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    Jesus whatever you do dont take zaleplon you have memory gaps. I woke up one morning and I ha takn apart my clock radio, I completely destroyed it wtha total lack of super ego decision making. It was a nice radio too!!!
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    wish iŽd knew the answer, but dont take ambien or zopiclone, they **** up your brain at night.....
    maybe try Soma, it works pretty well for sleep too

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    Take Lunista then put on headphones and listen to Losing My Religion.
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    Loprazolam is one of the few Benzos and Z-Type drugs that DOES NOT interfere w/ REM sleep - it's rather obscure though.
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    The really good stuff is GHB (Xyrem). Two ~3.5mg doses make you sleep perfectly well and will not interfere negatively at all with your cognitive processing.

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    I take Remeron at night and know for a fact I get REM sleep - it's a Tetracyclic Antidepressant that's used for sleep - not it's anti-depressant qualities. Plus it's non-addictive and works great - you could always try that!
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    I would probably take xanax, but you said you didn't want benzos.
    Have you tried doxylamine succinate? It's supposed to be more powerful than phenobarbital. And it's non-addicting.

    Last time I took kratom I had lots of non-jittery, euphoric energy. Then I passed out and slept like a log. What I'm getting at is sometimes the best downers are uppers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by etinin View Post
    The really good stuff is GHB (Xyrem). Two ~3.5mg doses make you sleep perfectly well and will not interfere negatively at all with your cognitive processing.
    This is probably the best med for deep sleep. Highly addictive though

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    I agree with @ kittsoan1989, and would recommend remeron. There,s quite a few older anti-depressants that work well helping you get to sleep. Trazodone actually increases time spent in stages three and four sleep, so I'm not sure whether that's good or bad for REM sleep. There's also a sleep aid called Rozerem that's fairly unheard of, but it works by stimulating melatonin effects on the brain. That might be an option for you. Better yet, have you ever tried melatonin? It's OTC and relatively inexpensive. I wish you the best of luck! It's a whole different world out there when you get the proper sleep!

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    @dmp336 - I did try rozerm - it worked fine for me, it's just that Remeron went generic and was SOO much cheaper - even with insurance - so Rozerm is DEFINITELY an option - I personally WAS NOT a fan of trazadone - it made me feel like a zombie in the morning -totally spaced out - but that's just me and everyone has their own effects so...
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    Oh, also, Tryptophan worked quite well during some nights for me (I usually sleep a lot but often remain sleep during the day). Melatonin apparently promotes deep restorative sleep. It seems that I developed some tolerance for it after a week or so.

    Zolpidem (Ambien) seems to be the best sleeping med among the commonly used. Acquired some generic Sandoz Zolpidem today through uncanny means. Thinking about taking GHB and then Zolpidem after I wake up during the night (or maybe the contrary) and seeing how it works.

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    Mirtazapine and Rozerum will make you dream your ass off.
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    The prescribed form of GHB, Xyrem, also known as sodium oxybate, is prescribed specifically to be taken initially at bed time and the 2nd dose is taken about 3-4 hours later. If you are trying to avoid brief memory loss and periods of confusion, I wouldn't recommend Ambien being taken only a few hours after Xyrem or similar compound.
    Xyrem specifically helps restore normal sleep architechture. For example, I skip stage 1 and go straight to stage 2 sleep and spend some time in REM and brief periods in deep sleep of stages 3 and 4. The restorative sleep that I should get in REM and stages 3 and 4 sleep are disrupted because for unknown reasons 20-30 times an hour my brain pulls me back up to a light sleeping state. Even though I am unaware and wouldn't know it was happening at all if not for the sleep studies, the constant disruption is a form of insomnia that people with narcolepsy have. Anyway- Xyrem allows for a normal amount of REM and deep sleep to occur and in the correct order.

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    Quote Originally Posted by assassoid View Post
    Mirtazapine and Rozerum will make you dream your ass off.
    I had the freakiest nightmares when I was on remeron. When I woke up around 3am, I tried to keep myself awake to avoid going back into the dream.

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