Hi @Maggiemaie. Although I have -regretably- some experience on that I'm by no means a MD but I'll take a chance at telling you what I think it'd be the best option for you at the stage you're at .Maybe other knowledgebable member will expand on that. Firs of all count your lucky stars for the neurontin helping you that much, whilst for me it'd be just like sipping a glass of water. If you think that + one 40 Dhc is okay don't go the sub route. Most doctors know shit about it and they'd put you on such a high a dose you'd really have a nightmare coming off from. Be leery of the new US milking cow. O,2 Temgesics (multiple x day) can help for that habit + the advantage of an easy kick. So what I suggest is stick with a 40 DHC and taper down from that along with the neurontin. Taper slow and easy on dhc. Once you feel DHC tabs are too big to cut into mgs, check DHC tartrate drops ''Paracodine'' which are still around and which you can taper down on two drops a week if you think that's good for you. As always, my advice is taper slow, there's no contest to win + the more you feel comfortable the less are relpasing chanches. Best of luck Maggie I think you're on the right track. Hope this helps.
''since nothing put us together nothing will tear us apart ''
@Perromaldido. Thank you for responding. So for, I have taken nothing more. I counted my hours wrong, I am actually at 48 hours opiate free. I am so amazed myself the neurotin is working so well. I am actually afraid to take any DHC,, for fear it would start those dreadful stomach cramps. I will wait as long as I can. Then, if I need to, I will start a slow taper. Thanks again.
DHC -even if SR- shouldn't reach 48 hrs before being missed...well not for me...but since the neurontin works for you like magic, yes hold on to it....you'll have no psych probs when and idf tough hours show up as you know that DHC is laying around somewhere at your place.....
''since nothing put us together nothing will tear us apart ''
The drug is a wonder drug for withdrawals (gabapenting), it can help anyone, even heroin addicts, If I may ask peridomo did you try it in the thousands range? If not, then you simply don't know of its hidden power. Much respect for maggiemaei for giving me credit as she took my advice and is beneffiting heavily. She will feel groggy, I did too, normal, beats the hell out of withdrawals. Soon enough this will be standard info on this forum/ the net/
dingleberry thank you for posting about neurotin. I don't understand why its not common knowledge. I would love to hear about others experience trying it in high doses.
Well, Dingleberry, I obviously have not used it in the thousand range...I'll gather info on its use other than to beat a few mgs DHC habit which can't compare with what I may need it when the Rattlesnakes Queen bites me. Thanx for sharing
''since nothing put us together nothing will tear us apart ''
Kratom absolutely helped me. I tried all of the strains, and Bali is best for me. This will not get you "high". At all. Take one or two caps an hour and just like Neo's cookie, things will seem better once you walk out the door. You'll stop watching the mailbox, and just live your life without a huge ball and chain around your ankle. Will I go back to dhc if it ever gets cheap again? That's the question that scares me. For now, though, my WDs are at bay and I don't miss it.
Last edited by Kris; 06-10-2012 at 04:02 PM. Reason: deleted a senior members source mention
@starleen, coughcough is a senior vendor, you obviously already know that which makes the fact that you posted it worse, please edit the vendor out.
How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat??
My humble advise: I have come off both hydro (37.5mg/day habit) and tramadol several times (upward of 600mg/day habit). Both times I waited until there were no more refills on my script, and I was faced with either trying to ask my doctor for more pills or turning to iops. Both of which we all know are annoying tasks which get so tiring (always having to plan ahead for the next refill). So I just don't line up the next refill. Then, when I know I'm getting to the last pills (like 5-10), I quit cold turkey. I then wait as long as I can before tanking any of the pills I have saved. When I do have to take one, it does not get me high but does relieve the symptoms of withdrawal. Then I wait again as long as I can...then take one. Taper to half pill when you can. I'm not sure if this is a real method, but mentally I feel better knowing I can relieve the symptoms if I absolutely need too. Then again, I'm nit perfect because I end up back on pills. But this type of taper is maybe inberween a long, slow taper and cold turkey. It would work if I didn't, like you say, miss the high. I've quit a 10 year smoking habit, a 10 year pot habit, and a 4mg/day Xanax habit but because of my back pain and addiction, I have the cycle again and again. Just never stop quitting. My humble offering to this thread.
Streets are uneven when you are down
Sophie30, I agree with Emma I've been on every hard painkiller outthere, h to vics. I was on methadone for 3 1/2 years went throughdetox for 23 days, it was he'll, but at the time if I didn't get on it, I would of tried killing myself. Yea your a slave to the clinic, and do not recommend it to anyone, but if that's there only option, it's better than dying. Subs are better, but the cost is outrageous, I'm on it now. I've been dealing with opiates for 17 years on and off, methadone is a last option and I think that's what Emma was saying. As far as going through months of w/d that never happened for me and j was on 120mg. FYI
Will I go back to DHC again if it ever becomes cheap again? No. Absolutely not. I've learned my lesson with 3x detoxes from DHC, the last being after the source disappeared and have hobbled together a life of swimming, Kratom, small doses of codeine, walking, massage and other things to control my symptoms.
I somewhat fear the codeine, and am lucky that I can use something that is considered "baby aspirin" in comparison to what others need to take just to make it through their day.
I'm proud of everyone in this thread who has kicked or in the processing of removing this medicine (or others) from their life.
Unfortunately some people have no choice. They are in chronic pain and would love for the chance to "kick the habit". For them, it's not possible, as their by-product of addiction is their only way of making it through their daily life.
If you don't succeed the first time, don't give up! Keep trying, eventually you will make it.
Just wanted to add a further warning here to anyone that is planning to get off DHC.....this is not going to be a 3-4 day flu-like event, you need to clear out 2 weeks and be prepared for a hellish ride. This stuff is far stronger than most of us realize. The dysphoria lasts and lasts.
oh, one other think about kratom.....I found only partial relief from this, and even then, I had to use the strongest extracts I could find (full spectrum tinctures worked okay). When I started out taking opiates, I could jump back and forth between opiates and kratom seamlessly. Not now. Tolerance is a lovely thing, no?
Last edited by GreenThumb; 08-16-2012 at 09:01 AM.
gabapentin is absolutely amazing for withdrawals. i highly recommend it with all the other stuff, clonidine, multi-vitamin, ibuprofen and valium (only if really needed)
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Good thing is, EVERYTHING will come back. just be strict with yourself and go through it. you will never have to go through it again
Last edited by phatboy; 08-17-2012 at 12:47 AM.
I do not think that @billyboy1965 is being cruel. IMO he has offered the quickest way to detox from opiates. Most people report that the cold-turkey method from opiates typically last threes day, although it can last up to 10 ten days. But, three days is the reported norm. What I have also read is that people who kick opiates, report that life is more enjoyable when they are clean. *
In regards to PAWS, I may be wrong here but opiates only alter one neurotransmitter endomorphins (endogenously produced morphine). This is significantly different from drugs like benzos (which stop your body from naturally producing*GABA), Tramadol which alters not only endomorphins, but also serotonin and norepinephrine, and antidepressants which depending on the type impact serotonin and/or norepinephrine.
PAWS as it applies to opiates can happen, but the symptoms are usually boredom, self doubt, depression and possibly insomnia. Many of these are easily remedied (sans insomnia).
First it is important to drink tons of water. Exercise, chocolate, acupuncture will all naturally release endorphins. As for depression, the above mentioned will help. But, the most important point is that there are many resources which will address PAWS induced depression, such as seeking counseling, joining NA and as a last resort going on an anti-depressant short term. I say "last result" because the difficulty with ADs is that they take weeks to work and you have to find the right one for you which could lead to months of trial and error.
Many people get addicted to opiates, not just because it produces euphoria (which wears off quickly), but because they feel that opiates make them more productive and in control of their lives. Also, to quote a member whose name I cannot remember, but recently posted in regards to an opiate or Tramadol "makes me feel normal, because I do not like who I am normally."
This is the crux of the problem and you need to find resources who will help you in this regard. Unless, this gets addressed - relapse is a strong possibility. Again, as I said there are many resources, some of them free which can help.
As another poster mentioned, I think it is important to ask youself some key questions, I suggest that you make a list of all the reasons you want to quit. Then take that list, fold it up and place it in your bill fold or maintain it on a IPhone, I-Touch or I-Pad app and read it every morning or when temptation rears its ugly head.
I hope this helps and congratulations on taking that first step: admitting you have a problem.
Firstly, my apologies for the asterisks in this post. I'm writing it on the notes app on my phone, and it leaves mysterious *'s everywhere.*
I'm currently on a very long taper from Dihydrocodeine, after having originally been prescribed it for Familial Hemiplegic Migraines in 2005/2006. One thing I can say with certainty is that Dihydrocodeine dependence or addiction can develop with alarming alacrity. Things can get out of hand very quickly indeed.*
When I first started taking it, I was commenced on an unusually high dose. I'll cut to the chase and chop out the slack, but following an intracranial haemorrhage in 2005, the migraines I'd already been suffering became much worse. This event was caused through a combination of high blood pressure brought about due to my (at that time) poorly managed anxiety and panic disorders, an atrial septal defect (hole in the heart) and Factor V Leiden (an hereditary blood clotting disorder) - both of the latter unknown to me at the time. Crudely put, a blood passed through the septal defect and travelled up into my brain. I was quite fortunate to come out of it in one piece, but it significantly worsened my mental health problems.*
The migraines were so severe that I was prescribed both OraMorph and Morphine tablets, which were not effective for me, amongst other opiates and opioids. I was contraindicated for Triptans due to the fact they narrow blood vessels in certain areas of the brain, and almost out of desperation, the neurologist I had in Leeds, who had heard of successes with high dose Dihydrocodeine for certain migraine states, started me on that, plus Cyclizine to combat any nausea.*
I was ramped up to a tolerance dose, as I was experiencing roughly two to four migraines a week, which could be anything from eight to eighteen hours in duration. The dihydrocodeine worked brilliantly at "killing" a migraine - and whilst a single dose lasts roughly six hours, I would find no need to redose. My maximum single dose allowance was 240mg. A very large sounding dose. And, suffice it to say, it did make me feel as high a kite, and usually extremely pleasant. There were times, however, when this high would tip into a very edgy, jittery feeling, which could be unpleasant. This was rare, however. It's also worth mentioning that I was taking, as I still do, Topiramate, a migraine prophylactic. I still query how successful this drug is, though.*
Then, creep started to set in. I realised I could focus on my music work, or boring, menial stuff when I was taking DHC. It also made me incredibly chatty. As soon as the DHC had my migraine under control, I would be on the telephone. That's when I started taking it when I didn't have a migraine as well. And that's when I started chewing the tablets up instead of swallowing them. And that's when I started buying more of them from the internet. By this stage, we are five years down the line - but in hindsight DHC had had a grip on me for the previous four years. It had, as perverse as this sounds, almost gotten to look forward to having a migraine.*
Then I moved house, from a lovely little townhouse, to be with a man I love dearly, but who couldn't move jobs. I could, because as a freelance sound engineer and composer, I could move all my studio equipment to his large apartment - on the top (14th floor) of a residential tower block. This was the start of my demise, as I've mentioned elsewhere, it culminated in a mental breakdown last November, but in the meantime, as my anxiety disorders and migraines went nuclear so did my intake of DHC. Oh, and then dangerous amounts of benzodiazepines. I have mentioned that my dad is a retired GP haven't I?!*
My partner works incredibly unsociable hours and, being truthful, I really felt incredibly lonely. I'm good at sharing feelings with strangers, but my family are the archetypal middle class British family who keep a stiff upper lip. I've also come to realise that I can't take any drugs, prescription or otherwise without becoming addicted to them, it's the way my brain is wired. So my maximum dose of 240mg DHC maybe once or twice a week, at it's worst became around 800mg a day - with a concoction of benzodiazepines bought from AMC on top. Probably equating to around 50-80mg equivalent of Diazepam, although in the event it ended up being Clonazepam I bought, because it was the cheapest "bang for buck" benzo on their site.*
I did have some savings that I'd squirrelled away which got all got spent at AMC. I was ordering DHC from them every single week - sometimes twice a week. This was on top of my monthly script of 200 DHC tablets. When I used to by them from P4U they were around £58. AMC doubled it. In the two years from the start of sliding down the slope to hitting it in November, I'd spent on average £350 a month on DHC from Online Pharmacies, and that's being conservative.*
In a way, my breakdown broke my addictions too, and of that I'm grateful. It at least ended the infinite loop, which by then had become completely pointless as there was no gratification to be had from the drugs I was choosing to abuse. I am lucky enough to have a superb doctor who has kindly been bringing me off both these drug types gently, and am at least off the Clonazepam, and am now taking six 30mg DHC a day, which will taper off over the next twelve months.*
I think at least in Britain, doctors are wising up to the incredible difference between good old codeine and DHC. They exist in different dimensions. A circular arguments ensues as to their relative strengths - but for many people DHC is a much more compelling drug, and research would seem to bear that out, as would anecdotal evidence.*
It is extremely common for Heroin users to seek DHC and chew a couple of hundred milligrams - there are many anecdotal reports that the subjective feelings are extremely similar. DHC is also, in my humble opinion, far more empathogenic than codeine or even the stronger synthetic or semi synthetic opiates - hence the sociability factor.*
Tramadol is now becoming the de facto replacement for the "next step up" from codeine in the UK, with a misplaced belief that this drug is less habit forming and easier to withdraw from than DHC. But time will tell. There seems to be a worrying amount of information that this drug is harder to withdraw from than many much stronger true opiates/opioids.*
The DHC Trap is incredibly easy to fall into. Opiates don't just ease physical pain, they ease psychic, mental pain too. They make you forget, they distract. They make you feel warm. Until it wears off and you wake up in the morning covered in sweat and feeling like hell and worrying that you only have X amount of tablets left.*
I wish you the best.*
.....The most magical, Saggy old cloth cat in the whole wide world.
I don't drop in here too often anymore but was happy to catch your post
Sorry that you have had such problems but also glad that you seem to be on a good path to recovery
Hope all goes well for you
I remember enjoying your posts as a brand new member here last year
I hardly know any of the posters now
wish that I had more time to spend on the forum but real life just gets in the way