Is this just stupid?

[misspoppy]

My son is 21 and in college, when he changed colleges and moved in with me he found that a lot of the guys around here take hydros and he started taking them. In the past 10 months he has gotten himself addicted. From what I am reading here on addiction it seems his addiction is small scale, he was taking 10mg 3 or 4 times a day. But he is so mad at himself for letting it happen and I have watched him in the last couple months try to taper off, take methadone, etc to get off of them but he has relapsed. Is it stupid of me to think that since codeine isn't as strong that maybe tapering down using codeine would work? I ordered some Ultracod 500/30mg and thought that if I gave him one of those twice a day for a week and then half twice a day for a week it would help with the symptoms, but if this is stupid then I need to be told as I am just trying to help him find the easiest way possible.

[billyboy1965]

I ordered some Ultracod 500/30mg and thought that if I gave him one of those twice a day for a week and then half twice a day for a week it would help with the symptoms, but if this is stupid then I need to be told as I am just trying to help him find the easiest way possible.

I wouldn't call it stupid. I call it enabling. Intentions are there but you are not helping him. There is no easy way. He needs to bite the bullet and stop.

You need to seek counseling either through your church or Al Anon and he needs to find himself a support group as well. He also needs to cut his ties and friendships with these people. They aren't friends.

As an aside, you're showing him how to support his habit. If the abusive population is large in your area, you've shown them the way as well. The postal service will end up having to hire another carrier.

Please reconsider your plan and stop.

[misspoppy]

Thanks and hey I need to hear posts like this as you are right when you say it is enabling. I am trying to make it easier on him and in my mind it seemed an easier way since codeine isn't as strong but I see what you are saying. I never even mentioned this to him, I just have been watching him feel so horrible for the past 3 days while trying to get off of them that I thought I came up with a brilliant plan but wanted to see if others had tried anything like that successfully.

[H20shed65]

@misspoppy
Hi. I would echo much of what @billyboy1965 said. I would also add the following from personal experience.

1) Nothing you do or don't do is going to make him stop and get help. He will stop when the consequences and pain become unbearable. Only he can make this decision. You cannot control his behavior, only your behavior.
2) As much as you want to help him, you are enabling him. Be careful, or you will love him to death. I don't say that to be unkind or cruel, it's just true.
3) If he decides to get help, by all means support him. But you cannot fix, change or make better his addiction issue. The drugs are the symptom, he needs to address the disease.

I wish you well, and remember, the choice isn't whether or not your son falls deeper into addiction or not, the choice is whether or not you allow him to take you down the rabbit hole with him.

[Perromaldido]

Well 40mgs a day isn't that low for a starter. I mean if he is one. Methadone? Please he shouldnìt even know it exists- not for a 40milles hydro habit. Having said that, regretably, all habits start small scale. As far as the Ultracod 500/30mg it'll take the edge off but it's peanuts , hence all will be in his mind and how he reacts to that good old tunnel vision. well he prolly don't know either. 3 x Ultracod may make it though. 1,5 gr. (500 x3) of paracetamol/day isn't too toxic after all...oh, remember overdosing on paracetamol is liver toxic to the extent that if one wants to take a huge dose of those combos it may as well result in liver necropathy. Which is not needed because max ceiling codeine dose is 300...yet a lot of paracetamol. Should he feel he needs an extra something look into ''cold water extraction'', for a mother like you will be like brewing a coffee and yelds a lot. He may not know about this procedure do don't mention to him.

Good luck (next time go for pure codeine)

Perromaldido

[misspoppy]

Thanks and that is why the title of this thread is what it is. I am lost as to what to do and I am bad about as his mother trying to fix things, even though he is grown, going to college and has a job. I need to sit back and just be there for him when he needs me as he is going through this process and hope this time he stays off them. He was so mad when he realized that he couldn't go through the day without at least a small amount. He said he had no clue that in such a short period of time it would grab ahold of him like it did.

[Roswell1947]

My son is 21 and in college, when he changed colleges and moved in with me he found that a lot of the guys around here take hydros and he started taking them. In the past 10 months he has gotten himself addicted.

If you have insurance I think he's covered until 26 yrs on your plan is the new
law. Perhaps there's a detox professional taper program that's covered.
@billyboy1965 is correct. This is serious stuff.
I had several friends who were addicted to the stronger Percodan
back in the 70's.
They would do anything to get it. They died in their 40's.
Good luck.

[misspoppy]

Well 40mgs a day isn't that low for a starter. I mean if he is one. Methadone? Please he shouldnìt even know it exists- not for a 40milles hydro habit. Having said that, regretably, all habits start small scale. As far as the Ultracod 500/30mg it'll take the edge off but it's peanuts , hence all will be in his mind and how he reacts to that good old tunnel vision. well he prolly don't know either. 3 x Ultracod may make it though. 1,5 gr. (500 x3) of paracetamol/day isn't too toxic after all...oh, remember overdosing on paracetamol is liver toxic to the extent that if one wants to take a huge dose of those combos it may as well result in liver necropathy. Which is not needed because max ceiling codeine dose is 300...yet a lot of paracetamol. Should he feel he needs an extra something look into ''cold water extraction'', for a mother like you will be like brewing a coffee and yelds a lot. He may not know about this procedure do don't mention to him.

Good luck (next time go for pure codeine)

Perromaldido

Yea the methadone seemed stupid to me since I am certain he has only been taking them since August of last year. It seems he is talking to all of his buddies at college who have a bigger habit and they are giving him advice as to what to do do which is why I am open to any and all suggestions. Thanks

[mimi]

Thanks and hey I need to hear posts like this as you are right when you say it is enabling. I am trying to make it easier on him and in my mind it seemed an easier way since codeine isn't as strong but I see what you are saying. I never even mentioned this to him, I just have been watching him feel so horrible for the past 3 days while trying to get off of them that I thought I came up with a brilliant plan but wanted to see if others had tried anything like that successfully.

@misspoppy - Everything @billyboy1965 and @H20shed65 said is totally accurate, and I agree with both of them. However, I have been in the position of an enabler, and I know how hard it is to watch a loved one suffer. I enabled a chronic alcoholic for many years because I couldn't stand to see him suffer, but in the end I now realize that my enabling wasn't helping him or me. I would follow the advice of @billyboy1965 and @H20shed65, but I just wanted to say that I'm sorry you're having to go through all of this. I know how hard it is to be in the position of an enabler, and I know how extremely difficult it is to watch a loved one suffer. Take care.

[misspoppy]

@misspoppy - Everything @billyboy1965 and @H20shed65 said is totally accurate, and I agree with both of them. However, I have been in the position of an enabler, and I know how hard it is to watch a loved one suffer. I enabled a chronic alcoholic for many years because I couldn't stand to see him suffer, but in the end I now realize that my enabling wasn't helping him or me. I would follow the advice of @billyboy1965 and @H20shed65, but I just wanted to say that I'm sorry you're having to go through all of this. I know how hard it is to be in the position of an enabler, and I know how extremely difficult it is to watch a loved one suffer. Take care.

Thank you and thank all of you for being nice to me about this instead of telling me how ignorant I am when I thought I came up with an easier way for him. I will continue to be there for him and am proud that he is trying not to take them. He is determined not to take anymore. If he does relapse I will still be there for him and support him when he tries again.

[Perromaldido]

Well misspoppy if he's been taking methadone since August....that's a completly different story. He's probably in denial about the true size of his habit. So I also say there's not a thing you can do. He talks to you so try ask what he's really taking and how much on a typical day. And yes, seek for professional advice, though IMHO sometimes they just manage to make it worse like putting people on a massive dose of Subuxone-

Perromaldido

[H20shed65]

Yea the methadone seemed stupid to me since I am certain he has only been taking them since August of last year. It seems he is talking to all of his buddies at college who have a bigger habit and they are giving him advice as to what to do do which is why I am open to any and all suggestions. Thanks

Misspoppy,

As someone who had substance abuse problems in the past and has been in recovery for some years, it's important to remember that addicts are liars. I don't know your son and I don't mean to sound unkind, but I know a great many addicts from my recovery program and the one thing we all have in common: Lying through our teeth to every single person around us while in our addiction. Obviously, you know your son best, but please keep this in mind as he tells you how much or how little he may or may not be using.

[misspoppy]

Well misspoppy if he's been taking methadone since August....that's a completly different story. He's probably in denial about the true size of his habit. So I also say there's not a thing you can do. He talks to you so try ask what he's really taking and how much on a typical day. And yes, seek for professional advice, though IMHO sometimes they just manage to make it worse like putting people on a massive dose of Subuxone-

Perromaldido

He has been taking hydros since August. His friend gave him some methadone to take while trying to get off of them this past week.

[mimi]

Misspoppy,

As someone who had substance abuse problems in the past and has been in recovery for some years, it's important to remember that addicts are liars. I don't know your son and I don't mean to sound unkind, but I know a great many addicts from my recovery program and the one thing we all have in common: Lying through our teeth to every single person around us while in our addiction. Obviously, you know your son best, but please keep this in mind as he tells you how much or how little he may or may not be using.

@H20shed65 - What you just said is so true. I can't even count the number of times that my loved one promised me that he was going to quit drinking, that he hadn't drank at all that day, that he only had a couple of beers when in reality he had drank a whole case of beer plus a ton of hard liquor, that tonight was the last night he was going to drink, and on, and on, and on. The sad part is that I always believed him. Fortunately he is sober now, but what @H20shed65 said is so true - my loved one was one of the biggest liars I have ever met while he was drinking. He lied to protect his addiction because nothing was more important to him than alcohol at that time in his life.

[Kat0711]

@misspoppy

I agree fully with @billyboy1965 and @H20shed65. As a recovering opiod addict myself (havent used since Feb this year) I can tell you your intentions may in fact make your son worse. Your just replacing one addictive substance with another addictive substance and he will take more and more trying to get the same feeling he had with the hydro, been there done that. He will not quit until he gets to the point where he is sick of his life and how hes living it. I know, Ive been there. He needs a program and support group. I have both now and for the first time in my life, I am content with how my life is going. Please encourage him to get into a treatment program and find a support group. I found both through my local mental health facility and both are no cost to me. Good Luck! If you have any questions or I can be of any help to you or or son, please feel free to PM me.

Love and kisses to you all!

Kat

[billyboy1965]

He has been taking hydros since August. His friend gave him some methadone to take while trying to get off of them this past week.

If you seek treatment/counseling and he takes the initiative as well, you will both learn that these ties need to be severed. That his friend had methadone to "give away" is not a good sign.

Take note of what @H20shed65 pointed out ~ addicts lie. They are masters at their game. Always remember that.

You might want to consider he might be self-medicating an undiagnosed mental condition and take a look into that. No offense; I've always maintained addicts self-medicate one disease with another.

Sorry to make a mountain out of a mole hill, there is no cure for addiction. He may very well live with it the rest of his life.

I'm always prepared for the worst and delighted if it turns out better than I believed it would.

[alumni]

He has been taking hydros since August. His friend gave him some methadone to take while trying to get off of them this past week.

There is an old saying in recovery: "How can you tell when an addict is lying?"
Answer: "When his lips are moving."
I'll wager an educated guess that you are getting a bunch of bullshit feedback from your son who is now in a panic about the results of his misguided choices.
The methadone could kill him. That's a medical fact, especially for people self-medicating with it. You should research methadone deaths on the Internet and show him the information.
You've received some very good advice from other posters here who have been in your son's shoes. There's no telling how high his hydrocodone use has actually become. Since he has revealed his problem to you (excellent initial step), I'd advise you to encourage him to be totally honest and attempt to get him into a supervised recovery program ASAP. That's about the best you can do at this point.
As noted, you are currently just playing an unhelpful enabler role.

[brienzi]

U have to respect people for telling you the way it really is with no BS...I think @billyboy1965 and @H20shed65 have done that and given you some great advice, my
advice would be to listen to em, loud and clear...

[pia]

My son is 21 and in college, when he changed colleges and moved in with me he found that a lot of the guys around here take hydros and he started taking them. In the past 10 months he has gotten himself addicted. From what I am reading here on addiction it seems his addiction is small scale, he was taking 10mg 3 or 4 times a day. But he is so mad at himself for letting it happen and I have watched him in the last couple months try to taper off, take methadone, etc to get off of them but he has relapsed. Is it stupid of me to think that since codeine isn't as strong that maybe tapering down using codeine would work? I ordered some Ultracod 500/30mg and thought that if I gave him one of those twice a day for a week and then half twice a day for a week it would help with the symptoms, but if this is stupid then I need to be told as I am just trying to help him find the easiest way possible.

There is no easy way to help your son, in fact there may be no way at all to help him. I would recommend that you help yourself foremostly by attending some Al-Anon meetings. This organization will help you by sharing and recognizing the signs and symtoms of co-dependancy.

By your account, it may be that you are enabling your son in his addiction. True you are only trying to help, but this kind of help is mostly, in my experience, counterproductive.

Google this group and/or Narcotics Anonymous for info.

pia

[Roswell1947]

Take note of what @H20shed65 pointed out ~ addicts lie. They are masters at their game. Always remember that.

Good point. In college, I stayed with a friend at his parents condo
in Colorado on a ski trip. My GF had a bad knee and had been given Percodan.
While skiing after a few runs this friend said "He needed a break and would meet us at the lodge in an hr."
He went down to the condo and cleaned out all her meds.
We knew it was him but said nothing since we were staying at his condo
saving us $200 a night. He was one of the ones who died.
Another common trick is when a friend asks to borrow the keys to your car
since his is "in the shop." He then goes out and makes copies of your appartment/ house keys
and while you're out at a future date cleans out your medicine chest. I never saw him again after that.