Alcohol Dependancy

[temp]

I have posted on here before about my best friend who is an alcoholic. I am seriously considering ordering some antabuse and giving it to her husband to slip in her morning cup of coffee. Yeah Yeah I know it would not work. Not to mention she could go into sever DT. Anyone been through this what are some tips to control alcohol withdrawls. It seems as if now the minor everyday problems through her into a tail spin. No let me re think that they give her an excuse to drink. Its sad if she does not do something soon I dont think she will make it a year. She gets drunk and downs pills has been to the ER three times already for OD in the last year and a half. Its killing me to watch her do this. Its underlying issues that are causing this. I have tried to get her to go to a psychiatrist but she goes maybe two times and when they start digging too deep and bringing up issues she does not want to deal with she stops going.

[Perromaldido]

Not only it wouldn't work if you were to give it to him w/o its knowledge but he'd puke his guts out after he's had his first morning one. There's only one known substance which acts as a crave killer methadone style and gives alcoholics the time to review wtf alcohol lead them to. It's sodium oxybate aka- regretably - the infamous GHB. It's called Alcover in Europe and it's a right on label use, Xyrem in the US but that's right off label. Talking to a serious alcohologist - provided he wants to take actions - you may want to talk about it, as well as a possibly try with Phenibut. But a GP wouldn't even know what you're talking about

[Gman]

I have posted on here before about my best friend who is an alcoholic. I am seriously considering ordering some antabuse and giving it to her husband to slip in her morning cup of coffee. Yeah Yeah I know it would not work. Not to mention she could go into sever DT. Anyone been through this what are some tips to control alcohol withdrawls. It seems as if now the minor everyday problems through her into a tail spin. No let me re think that they give her an excuse to drink. Its sad if she does not do something soon I dont think she will make it a year. She gets drunk and downs pills has been to the ER three times already for OD in the last year and a half. Its killing me to watch her do this. Its underlying issues that are causing this. I have tried to get her to go to a psychiatrist but she goes maybe two times and when they start digging too deep and bringing up issues she does not want to deal with she stops going.

__________________________________________________ ____
All respect to your experience,

There are some folks, who..due to medical reasons and mindset, have a real abhorence to alcohol

just something to consider,

Kindly and with respect,
Gman

[barkingmad]

I have posted on here before about my best friend who is an alcoholic. I am seriously considering ordering some antabuse and giving it to her husband to slip in her morning cup of coffee. Yeah Yeah I know it would not work. Not to mention she could go into sever DT. Anyone been through this what are some tips to control alcohol withdrawls. It seems as if now the minor everyday problems through her into a tail spin. No let me re think that they give her an excuse to drink. Its sad if she does not do something soon I dont think she will make it a year. She gets drunk and downs pills has been to the ER three times already for OD in the last year and a half. Its killing me to watch her do this. Its underlying issues that are causing this. I have tried to get her to go to a psychiatrist but she goes maybe two times and when they start digging too deep and bringing up issues she does not want to deal with she stops going.

Unfortunately, there isn't much you can do to help her if she doesn't see the need for help. But it is NEVER a good idea to dose someone without their knowledge, I mean NEVER! Even if you set aside the HUGE moral/ethical implications, you don't know what she's put in her body and you could literally kill her by accident.

There is nothing sadder than watching a person committing suicide by the layaway plan. I watched one of my parents literally drink themselves to death over several years and in the end, I had to disengage because there is always collateral damage with drunks/junkies and I wasn't willing to expose my children to that. It was the hardest thing in my whole life to do..walking away from that parent to protect myself and my family, but if you get too close to the "whirlpool" you'll be a casualty too.

[Kancho]

Low dose naltrexone is probably the most effective way to cure alcoholism, all it dose it kill the euphoria of the drug. So the person will naturally cut down on drinking because there not getting any positive reinforcement, at the same time they can still drink to prevent withdraws. Eventually most people become moderate drinkers, its fairly popular in Europe. You should make sure that the alcoholic is under the supervision of a doctor should they decide to use naltrexone.

[barkingmad]

Low dose naltrexone is probably the most effective way to cure alcoholism, all it dose it kill the euphoria of the drug. So the person will naturally cut down on drinking because there not getting any positive reinforcement, at the same time they can still drink to prevent withdraws. Eventually most people become moderate drinkers, its fairly popular in Europe.

@Kancho, Surely you read the bit where the original poster is the one contemplating dosing their alcoholic friend's coffee, not the alcoholic themselves, right? Even if you get past the ethics of drugging someone without their knowledge, the act could be potentially leathal if that person has a bad reaction to the drug or is allergic to it. I cant think of any justification that warrants risking those kind of stakes. jmho

[Kancho]

@Kancho, Surely you read the bit where the original poster is the one contemplating dosing their alcoholic friend's coffee, not the alcoholic themselves, right? Even if you get past the ethics of drugging someone without their knowledge, the act could be potentially leathal if that person has a bad reaction to the drug or is allergic to it. I cant think of any justification that warrants risking those kind of stakes. jmho

I never suggested that nor implied that they should do it without the persons knowledge, I was just pointing out possible therapy's.

[barkingmad]

I never suggested that nor implied that they should do it without the persons knowledge, I was just pointing out possible therapy's.

@Kancho, thank goodness and my apologies. I was just being cautious in case the original poster took it as a potential solution. Again, you have my humblest of apologies, but surely you understand my intentions were good and not accusatorty.

[Kancho]

You talk about ethics and in the posters case a fairly strong argument can be made for drugging her without her knowledge assuming what has been presented is true.

It is pretty clear that this person is close to death since she has already had to go to ER three times for overdosing and the add to the problem she is mixing pills. It's pretty clear that she is refusing any sort of therapy because I'm sure the ER would have referred her to someone to treat her addiction. In the state the person is currently in she is likely to die shortly without some sort of intervention, you know you can't kill a dead person as they say. Yes is there a very small chance she will have allergic reaction and die or she might continue to drink more and land up in the ER, but like I said before she is going to die anyway without something being done.

Sometimes professionals get caught up in "ethics", I love the APA ones about not sleeping with your students and patients. Ethics is about doing what you would want if you were in the reversed situation will still maintaining the knowledge of the original perspective. I for one would want myself drugged without my knowledge if I was in the posters situation because I would would have a higher chance of living, but that is just me. I will add all the best experiments were unethical, lets see polio vaccine...using your son as a test monkey, and countless others.

Like I said before, I never suggested that nor implied that they should do it without the persons knowledge, I was just pointing out possible therapy's.

[barkingmad]

@Kancho, you and I will have to agree to disagree on this one I think. Once you cross that line and take away choice from an individual, it becomes a very slippery slope. Do you slip a woman who has high risk factors a morning after pill because a pregnancy might kill her? The problem with removing the individual's right to choose is that in your scenario, if the alcoholic dies (as my mother did), thats on them, if they die because someone dosed them, that's criminal; assault if the live, manslaughter if they die. If an alcoholic chooses to drink, they are gonna drink. Even if they didnt get "high", they ill continue to drink until they die from alcohol poisoning.

As I said, we are going to have to disagree on this one.

[Kancho]

I guess my attitudes on this subject are strong because I myself have a alcoholic mother and have contemplated the exact same thing. I have come to the conclusion that I will wait until she is at the point that she is the condition the posters friend is before I act.

My attitudes also come from my background as scientist and general disappointment with the medical community. My 14 year old dog had gotten an badly infected sexual reproductive track (leaking pus bad), normally the only to save the dog is to remove the entire reproductive track, but my dog was too old and I had two vets tell me to take her home and keep her comfortable until it was time to put her down.

At that point in my my mind I had a dead dog and anything went and that's what I did. I did some reading and used a few experimental therapy's. My dog lived and is still living quiet well at 17. Now it is possible that my dog would have recovered on her own, but when I took that dog back 6 months later to vet he basically shit brick that the dog was alive. Now the posters friend many not be as in dire straights as my dog was, but shes pretty close.

Like I said before, I never suggested that nor implied that they should do it without the persons knowledge, I was just pointing out possible therapy's.

@Kancho, you and I will have to agree to disagree on this one I think. Once you cross that line and take away choice from an individual, it becomes a very slippery slope. Do you slip a woman who has high risk factors a morning after pill because a pregnancy might kill her? The problem with removing the individual's right to choose is that in your scenario, if the alcoholic dies (as my mother did), thats on them, if they die because someone dosed them, that's criminal; assault if the live, manslaughter if they die. If an alcoholic chooses to drink, they are gonna drink. Even if they didnt get "high", they ill continue to drink until they die from alcohol poisoning.

As I said, we are going to have to disagree on this one.

And that is the beauty of philosophy and debate, people get so caught up and offended if the other disagrees when its nothing personal.

As for the pregnant women she is not imminent danger of death should she get pregnant. She can get a abortion (another messy topic I don't want to get into). Unlike the poster she has not seen a doctor regarding a possible condition that may happen in the future. Your using a slippery slope argument and your making fairly large leaps, you have to be careful that don't commit a fallacy (Logical Fallacy: Slippery Slope).

[Piper]

@Kancho, I'm definitely with @barkingmad on this one. She will either die drinking, or be granted a psychic change if she has enough detrimental consequences which will cause her to seek help. This is the reason alcoholism is a "family" disease. Every body thinks they can "help" the alcoholic/drug abuser, but they cannot. That person must come to realization that they are truly powerless over the substance and be willing to do anything to recover. Family members must learn that they are powerless over the alcoholic. For the OP, I would suggest Al-Anon, which is for loved ones of active and recovering alcoholics. You will get the support you need, and members there have heard and thought about everything you are thinking about. Believe me, you are not unique in your thinking, they have heard and tried it all, just as the alcoholic has.

Slipping antabuse into the morning joe is just another form of enabling the alcoholic and nothing good ever comes of that. Besides that, it's not up to loved ones to label the user an "alcoholic". That is up to the drinker.

Antabuse can be extremely helpful for the alcoholic who is willing to do anything to stop drinking, but the alcoholic has to take responsibility to obtain the medication if he/she has cravings that simply cannot be stopped long enough for recovery to start. JMO.

[Kancho]

@Kancho, I'm definitely with @barkingmad on this one. She will either die drinking, or be granted a psychic change if she has enough detrimental consequences which will cause her to seek help. This is the reason alcoholism is a "family" disease. Every body thinks they can "help" the alcoholic/drug abuser, but they cannot. That person must come to realization that they are truly powerless over the substance and be willing to do anything to recover. Family members must learn that they are powerless over the alcoholic. For the OP, I would suggest Al-Anon, which is for loved ones of active and recovering alcoholics. You will get the support you need, and members there have heard and thought about everything you are thinking about. Believe me, you are not unique in your thinking, they have heard and tried it all, just as the alcoholic has.

Slipping antabuse into the morning joe is just another form of enabling the alcoholic and nothing good ever comes of that. Besides that, it's not up to loved ones to label the user an "alcoholic". That is up to the drinker.

Antabuse can be extremely helpful for the alcoholic who is willing to do anything to stop drinking, but the alcoholic has to take responsibility to obtain the medication if he/she has cravings that simply cannot be stopped long enough for recovery to start. JMO.

Your right that it helps a lot if the person wants to stop drinking, but the Sinclair method (Sinclair Method - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) is based more on behavioral extinction which can work regardless if the person wants to stop or not. It works a lot faster if the person does wants to stop however.

[Piper]

@Kancho, with all due respect, staying sober and in recovery of any kind, will only work if the alcoholic wants to stop and will be willing to do ANYTHING to get and stay sober.

[billyboy1965]

I have posted many many many times, I believe most recently in @sophie30's thread. "You can't cure an alcoholic." Nobody can. Only the alcoholic can seek treatment and the treatment is daily because it is a chronic disease.

I do know a lady who made (repeat MADE) her husband take antibuse with his orange juice each morning.

This is where "dominance" comes into the equation just as enabling and codependency and does nothing but worsen the situation. I don't feel like writing a book because I've written about a thousand chapters on the subject on this board.

[kcfunguy50]

I'm sorry to hear about your friend. Unfortunately, it's true that you can't help an alcoholic unless they WANT help, and very few can conquer it alone. Even if you can't do anything to physically help her, being there for comfort and support will mean a lot to her.

[Bradlaugh]

I, like so many of us here have had mixed experiences with doctors. The problem here is that alcohol is a particularly dangerous drug to come off from for addicts. There's no way to help your friend unless they are completely on board. Furthermore, the supervision of some health professional during the titration process is a must. Alcohol is one of the few substances for which detox can be fatal.

[phatboy]

i think alcoholism is the worst addiction to deal with hands down. as in dealing with someone you love being an alcoholic, not yourself

[audacity]

Your right that it helps a lot if the person wants to stop drinking, but the Sinclair method (Sinclair Method - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) is based more on behavioral extinction which can work regardless if the person wants to stop or not. It works a lot faster if the person does wants to stop however.

Be careful saying that stuff about the Sinclair method, lest you be branded a heretic. I'm serious. The Church of Bill Wilson doesn't take kindly to apostates.

Although Bill did hope one day there would be a pill to curb compulsive drinking. It's right there in the Big Book itself.

[tinyfish]

Alcohol is bad every thing is bad if you take alot but I know you have probably heard it before but it's a day by day situation I hope that helps tell your friend not to give up