Has Kratom helped you?

[foofactor]

Hi Gang!

Personally, I have used Kratom to withdrawal from opiates and it is 'beyond' the best option out there in my personal opinion. But, I was wondering if anyone had any current personal stories on whether it has helped or not?

I thought this was a great article and i'm posting it up for additional comments as well.


Kratom Opiate Detox: A Fallacy

Kratom is touted as a way to curtail the effects of opiate withdrawal, and it’s also promoted as an option for people looking to beat their opiate addictions. Being pretty analytical and logical, I unfortunately bought into the idea that both of these notions were true without thinking these suppositions through. One of these widely-promoted beliefs can be true whereas the other — not so much.


This post is about exposing the fallacy of one of these widely-held beliefs.

Kratom’s effect on opiate withdrawal symptoms

I know through first-hand experience that Kratom and drugs like Vicodin have a cross tolerance. Not a cross tolerance in the sense that Kratom is pharmacologically or chemically similar to Vicodin, because it isn’t, only that they do trigger some of the same brain areas and thus have some of the same effects and therefore can, in a small sense, be swapped back and forth to either work to treat pain or mitigate withdrawal symptoms of the other.

I’ve now been in both situations: using Vicodin for an extended period of time and switching to Kratom, and using Kratom for an extended period of time and switching to Vicodin. In both cases, I would normally experience withdrawal symptoms if I quit ‘cold turkey’. Physical withdrawal symptoms are similar for both Kratom and opiates: flu-like sensations, increased perception of pain in areas where pain exists (if you’re taking the medicines for pain), random muscle / bone pains, sweats, agitation, restless leg, etc. While anecdotal, I’ve not experienced withdrawal symptoms when swapping between Kratom and Vicodin or vise-versa.

The reason that Kratom can help with mild opiate withdrawal symptoms is because, again, Kratom and drugs like Vicodin, Lortab, Percocet, etc bind to some of the same opioid receptors. Alkaloids, or small components, of Kratom are opioid agonists, as is Hydrocodone, Oxycodone, etc. Because they trigger activity in the same brain receptors, Kratom will replace the function of true opiates (opium-derived medicines) in this context. This means that withdrawal effects from the pharmaceutical narcotics are either delayed or displaced and not experienced fully or at all until opioid agonist substances are stopped.

Though the primary active component of Kratom, 7-Hydroxymitragynine, is believed to be about 15x more potent than morphine, online user reports of using Kratom to curb withdrawal symptoms for high-dose opiate addictions or addictions to drugs like Heroin are mixed to negative in terms of its effectiveness.

The fallacy of beating opiate addiction using Kratom

I actually gleaned this bit of information from a retort posted by a substance abuse professional regarding Kratom, and it made a lot of sense. I can’t remember the exact location of the conversation, and I won’t recall it verbatim, but the end-result point is what’s important. Basically, Kratom will not help you get rid of your opiate addiction because Kratom and opiates like Hydro- and Oxy- are opioid agonists. Kratom and drugs like Hydrocodone initiate a similar physiological response when binding to opioid receptors. Saying that Kratom will help you detox from opiate use is like saying nicotine patches help you detox from cigarette use. That’s not to say that it can’t help you in some respects, but in reality you’re replacing one drug with another, or replacing a delivery system with another while still obtaining the same physiological effects.

If you want to detox from opiates or drugs that initialize your opioid receptors, you need an opioid antagonist, or a substance that blocks responses from your opioid receptors or prevents binding in the first place (which, it’s the binding that leads to the euphoric aspects of these substances).

In simple terms, you won’t get rid of your opiate addiction by feeding it with Kratom. You may minimize or eliminate immediate withdrawal symptoms, but until you stop artificially activating your opioid receptors, you’ll still have the addiction or dependence because Kratom is basically an opiate replacement, not an opiate detoxification agent.

As for whether you can ‘taper’ your withdrawal symptoms, such as using Kratom to minimize Heroin or Oxycodone withdrawal symptoms, then tapering off from Kratom for a less-agonizing withdrawal period — that’s beyond what I know and it doesn’t appear to have been studied yet. Some more familiar with Kratom and its affects on our brains and bodies speculate that using Kratom to detox from strong opiates only delays the more severe withdrawal symptoms.

Kratom for opiate withdrawal

If you want to lessen the intensity of withdrawal symptoms from Vicodin, Oxycontin, Percocet, etc, then it’s a possibility that Kratom may help relieve some of those symptoms temporarily. However, if you’re under the assumption that Kratom will help you get rid of your opiate addiction — that’s a fallacy that just doesn’t hold up when compared with the facts of the situation.

[Va2323]

Krafom didn't do anything for me

[Kexessa]

@foofactor While this may all be factually true, the use of Kratom varies from user to user with mixed results, being failure or success.

I used Kratom when P4U went down and that affordable DHC was no longer available. A combo taper of what DHC I had left plus Kratom did help. When all that was left was Kratom, I found withdrawal easier to move through, and it went a little quicker compared to other DHC detoxes.

There is a good chance that some of the benefits of Kratom come from the placebo effect. With the help of a friend here, I'm trying to find the "perfect" strain of Kratom for myself, with sparing use of codeine to control my symptoms while giving me the energy I lack from just general apathy and lethargy.

Kratom is not a "wonder drug" and will not solve all your addiction, either by choice or forced on you by your chronic pain condition but I think many people have found Kratom to be of some use in their medical roster.

Some will say Tylenol does nothing for them. Some say OFF insect repellent doesn't work for them. Like anything else, there are those who it will help, and those it won't.

I think to say that Kratom has no use in any detox from opiates, won't help you, is simply a replacement, is delaying or prolonging the agony of withdrawal is an unfair statement. It is a legal substance, it's relatively cheap, it can be purchased legally, shipped and received legally and for anyone trying to break their cycle of addiction, there is no real reason for them not to investigate this herb and see if it can provide them some help.

There are those who have used it in combination with other therapies to completely break their addiction to opiates. To take that away from them and future willing or unwilling addicts is irresponsible.

[phatboy]

kratom didn't help me at all either back in the day when i was addicted to oxycontin. it actually made me feel kinda worse. i ended up giving everything i had away it was that worthless to me

[HenryHwk]

Just for the record, Kratom has been a life saver for me helping me get through Oxy WDs

[teresita]

Kratom has helped me on and off for years not for w/ds but for the energy enhancement and focus. It may not take away pain but gives me the energy to get through a nite and not focus on my pain.

I used it when I went off tramadol awhile back (which I just recently went back on after nearly 2 months) and I didnt have any of the horror stories of wds that I read about. Im not sure it was the kratom or I am just a lucky person. When I go off kratom every couple months for a couple weeks, I do get very tired easily and sort of crave it but taking a vacation from using it makes it more effective when I start it up again.

Its not for everyone, I know that but it has helped me emensely.

[sugarsnap]

I've taken Kratom when I've been too cowardly to visit a licensed doctor to address my pain for whatever reason, and it was immensely helpful. I agree that it really depends on the strain, and finding the right match for your body chemistry is largely a matter of trial and error. I personally can't stand any strain that makes me feel "loopy," like I've just taken a big hit of weed. I just want to take enough to make the pain subside. In my limited experience, there are a few strains that seem to provide pain relief, a shi*ton of strains that get you blazed out of your mind, and a few strains that seem to provide a mild energy boost while also providing moderate pain relief.

When my sister's partner had a flare-up of an old knee injury combined with agonizing muscle tension in her shoulder/neck area, Kratom was a godsend for her. This "hype" blend we get from an "ancient Thai healing garden" up the road has also proven helpful for weaning my boyfriend off Adderall & other stimulants when he makes a go of it, and his "crash" is not nearly as awful as it is with prescribed stimulants.

I have no experience using it as a withdrawal aid from opiates (opiods? I'm never sure what the correct distinction is regarding these terms). I'm relatively sensitive to their side effects so a little goes a long way for me -- but if you have access to a trustworthy source and are not already opiate-dependent, Kratom will generally help whatever ails you provided good old-fashioned ibuprofen isn't enough to get the job done. Side effects for me are manageable: itchiness (I take generic Zyrtec beforehand), mild constipation, and mild to moderate headache when the effects wear off. No cravings so far, but since I don't experience any euphoria from it, I take it only as needed, i.e, only when my pain is totally unmanageable.

[Bananastickers]

I know you are not supposed to have opiates in your system when trying kratom. That brings me to this potentially stoopid question: would tramadol be included in this opiate lump? I'd assume it would, but some further opinions would be helpful.

Thank you

[teresita]

@Bananastickers I use tramadol with kratom at times and I have found the effects just as good, maybe even better. But I try to limit my trams since Im only prescribed a small amount a month and have been trying to stay away from expensive NROPs.

I had never heard until recently that you werent suppose to have any opiates in your system since I thought you could use kratom while decreasing opiates to get off of them. I dont know whats true or not. I guess everyone having different reactions would mean, this too could be effective for some and not for others.

I think it was Momentum that stated in one thread to not have opiates in your system and since he was banned recently, I wouldnt take his word as gospel and use what helps you.

[Va2323]

Kratom has never really done anything, I took 3 times what obese supposedzmi guess it might have helped force hour or so, but I think think it was more of a psychological effect. But

[Kexessa]

Its not for everyone, I know that but it has helped me emensely.

It has helped me as well, in many ways.

I came across this article the other day, it's from April of this year:

The Rush to Prohibit Kratom by Brendan Kiley - Seattle Features - The Stranger, Seattle's Only Newspaper

It's quite lengthy, but the what concerned me about this article was the rush to ban kratom by lawmakers with no data, no research, and the DEA putting out bulletins that - The DEA warning also mentions "several cases of kratom psychosis" where kratom users "exhibited psychotic symptoms of hallucinations, delusions, and confusion", but being unable to back up the claim with any data whatsoever.

For anyone who has used, or uses kratom with success for whatever issues, articles like these are quite frightening. A Louisiana state senator is trying to get it classified as a schedule 1, and if you read the article, he's trying to do it with zero data to back up his Bill.