I got a question that i hope someone can help me with. On a standard urine test would hydro and oxy give the same positive?
I got a question that i hope someone can help me with. On a standard urine test would hydro and oxy give the same positive?
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I am 99% certain they would both yield positive results. Standard urine tests typically don't test for methadone or suboxone/subutex but do test for your standard opiates/opioids like codeine, oxy, hydro, etc.
@QVC1212 thanks for the reply.. im almost sure its a 5 panel test.. i hope.. its a random test and there is a gang of us that have to go. I have a script to cover the hydro but not the percs. I thought those test, for the opis, would only show pos for codeine and morphine? Guess i could bring the hydro script and hope for the best.
if it's just a 5 panel test you should be alright; opiates, thc, amphetamines, cocaine, and one other one (not opiate) pcp or something. it should just show as opiates, in which case you show your script and you're good. they need a special immuno-assay to differentiate between percocet and hydro( I think, but don't quote me on that). I've taken over a hundred drug tests so I'm kind of involuntary expert in this area. Mostly when I was in the military.
Both are synthetic opiates derived from thebaine so I would assume that both would show as a positive for opiates. If you look at the chemical make up of the two drugs they are almost exactly the same, a pharmacist once told me this.
Everything that i have been reading leads me to think that hydro and oxy would not cause a positive result on the panel test, I could be wrong.. I also have been taking codeine for pain, but the last i had was on sunday and from what i have been reading, codeine stays in your system for about 2-3 days, so it is posibile that this is the cause. So... do you know if detection times are the same with this "gas" test? Reason i ask is that there is a bit of good news.. they called me and said i could retest in the morning!
I can't say with complete certainty, but I'm 99.5 perfect sure that what QVC said is correct... If you have a prescription to cover the Vics, then you won't get in trouble for any positive that the Vics & Percocets may cause. There's no way they'd be able to differentiate between Vics & Percs on a standard drug test, since they'd both show up as a positive in the same "category" if they even show up at all (which is doubtful, but possible), so your script for the Vics would just negate the positive for that entire "category".
Well, this is strange.. i did go for the retest and later that day i got a call saying the results for the GC test and the 10 panel retest both had came back neg! hmmm.. i dont know.. guess they are really short handed as i was told through the grapevine that almost everyone in my dept was "hot" on one thing or another. who know... thanks for all the replies.
Wow the UA didn't come up positive? I'm shocked.
Regarding UA's and opiates, the internet in general is rife with misinformation. There are people who think a 5-panel test won't detect synthetic opiates such as oxy. Their argument is that the only opiates that will come up on the 5-panel are heroin, codeine, and morphine.
The fact is oxy most definitely shows up as positive for opiates on a 5-panel UA. I've been trying to relay this to people on drug-testing boards and forums.
Lortabs, Vicodin, Percs, Oxy's, hell anything with an "opiod" in it will show up on opiod tests. 3-5 days it is out of your system. 5 is always safest bet.
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Last edited by Azzamean; 03-28-2011 at 11:02 PM.
Hydrocodone and Oxycodone will in fact for the most part trigger the the same positive on a standard onsite drug screen. The problem is though that the panel that it will trigger a positive on is an OXY panel. Both Hydro and Oxy are semi-synthetics and metabolize similarly. Unfortunately there is no Hydrocodone panel available on onsite drug test kits. Only an OXY panel. Typically Oxy will trigger a positive for the OXY panel at 300 ng/ml. That is a pretty ****ing small amount. Hydro will cross react at different levels depending on that specific brand of test or more specifically the manufacture of the reagents used on the strips on the tests. I have seen it as low as 500 ng/ml and as high as 3,000. Either way, heavy hydro use will trigger a "false" positive on an oxy panel. it is very unlikely to trigger a positive on a standard OPIATE panel on a drug test. OPI panels are based on morphine and its direct derivatives. Heroin, dilaudid, morphine, codeine...So a hydro user takes a drug test, pops positive for OXY and presents a sript for hydro and if the test admin isnt familiar enough with the concept they will almost certainly send it in for a confirmation. Now if they confirm OXY ONLY because thats what came up positive on the test, the confirmation will come back negative and your off the hook. If the lab also confirms hydro, and some do automatically because of the commonality, it will show that it was specifically hydro that triggered the oxy positive and if you have a script youll be fine.
Fentanyl is one opiate that is very hard to detect vecause of how small of doses are administered. Were talking micro grams. It cannot be picked up on an onsite test but a lab can usin a moe specific method.
I hope this is helpful to you. If not feel free to send me more details and questions
That is pretty amazing your amount of knowledge is scary Boogani. No hydro panel for onsite drug kits. Yet, I showed up positive for a dipstick test when I was taking hydro in an expired kit, and when they tested me again using an un-expired kit, I came out clean. Their justification was "it must have cleared my system" and they cleared me for back to work. But I was using heavy, heavy hydro use so as you say it was probably a false positive which then by drinking a boatload of water I diluted to the point that it was a false negative. The irony is that I had a script but would've been suspended until I showed them the script.
Fentanyl is hard to detect, huh? I know where to get fentanyl patches, but the smallest one is $83 a piece. I can't afford that. But I'm tempted. No, I won't, it'd be too tempting to commit suicide via fentanyl overdose.
I have a question Boogani. What about ketamine? Is that detectable on a standard immuno-assay? (obviously it would be on a lc or gc/ms). And how long does it stay in your system?
Last edited by QVC1212; 03-30-2011 at 11:54 AM. Reason: forgot to add the @ to @Boogani
Ketamine is generally never tested for. Not on an assay screen OR mass spec ! I'm sure some of the larger labs couldnconfirm it but it would ha to be special ordered on the req form they use. It's not on any standard profile
@Boogani thanks for the update!! I will go back to my special k use now (just kidding) that stuff is impossible to acquire unless you're a veterinarian anyway. I remember even in Miami, where the drugs flow through the streets like wine, that it was unheard of to find it. Not that you'd want it anyway, except for its sedative and analgesic properties.
I found this on the board at DB, which says that health care workers can get tested for ketamine, essentially:
Since addicts in the medical field can be using a laundry list of unique medications that the average addict doesn't have access to, the test they undergo has an amazing list of chemicals.
The test I took was the HPP-I listed below.
However, they also have another test that will find all of the meds on the second list.
Bascially, if you take something, they've got a test to find it.
Amphetamines 1000 ng/mL screen
Barbiturates 300 ng/mL screen
Cocaine Metabolite 300 ng/mL screen
Marijuana Metabolite (THC) 20 ng/mL screen
Methadone 300 ng/mL screen
PCP 25 ng/mL screen
Propoxyphene 300 ng/mL screen
TestSure™’ Adulterant Panel (Nitrite, Chromates, Halogens, Oxidizing Adulterants, Creatinine,
Specific Gravity, Acids, Bases and Glutaraldehyde)
Fentanyl, Meperidine, Tramadol
This second test must cost a fortune:
Antidepressants: Amitriptyline, Nortriptyline, Fluoxetine, Sertraline
Antihistamines: Chlorpheniramine, Diphenhydramine, Doxylamine
Stimulants: Diethylpropion, Ephedrine, Fenfluramine, MDA, MDMA, Methylphenidate, Nikethamide, Phendimetrazine, Phenmetrazine,
Phentermine, Phenylpropanolamine, Pseudoephedrine
Narcotics: Buprenorphine and/or metabolite, Butorphanol Metabolite, Dihydrocodeine, Nalbuphine, Pentazocine, Naltrexone Metabolite
Other Drugs: Flunitrazepam Metabolite, Ketamine Metabolite, Meprobamate, Zolpidem, Dextromethorphan
What do you think? Is that guy full of shit? you said they'd have to order a special test for ketamine. Also, my research (and experience) indicates that zolpidem will not show up on any panel UA test, only a gc/ms.
This guy didn't claim to have any of the credentials that you have.
Last edited by QVC1212; 03-31-2011 at 11:59 PM. Reason: add info
Yes they would both show up on a standard drug test as opiates. If its a 5 panel your good, because they are looking for the Morphine based opiates and heroin. But the 8 panel or labs can definitely detect them and tell the difference.
The labs all have a requisition form. One of the biggest problems between labs and the physician writing for the test is the cost. Docs get really pissed off at the labs for the outrageous bills being sent to their patients in the cases where the patients insurance decides not to cover the test. This is in the case of a clinical drug test such as visiting the ER and them running a test or a pain management clinic routine test. In these cases the test and the confirmation is billed to the patients insurance so the labs try to test for AS MANY metabolites as humanly possible to maximize the reimbursement. In the case of an employment or governmental test, it is very different. Te lab gets paid the same no matter what they have to confirm and they make their money off of the qualitative test, the more quantitative tests they have to run the more it cuts into their profits so they will run as few as possible. All of the "add ons" listed in list 2 would have to be physically checked off my the person prescribing the test and for each "check" it costs more money so even in a clinical setting it is VERY rare for them to check off Ketamine and zolpidem however buprenorphine is becoming more popular. A lab can test for anything. Especially if it is a SAMSHA Lab but their standard tests do not include all of these ancillary tests. 8 panel and 5 panel screens dont really mean much in relation to what the labs do when they get ahold of the specimen. It used to be a standard 5 panel test set for ALL employment testing. It was called the NIDA 5. This standard was set by the DOT standard of drug testing. Now they have increased it to a NIDA 9 panel and still, 9 panels doesnt NEARLY cover all the ancillary tests out there. The environment in which the test is being conducted and how the profits are earned plays a MAJOR roll on what is tested for and how many metabolites are confirmed or screened for. Employment drug testing, Government drug testing (drug courts, probation offices, Child welfare..) are done as skinny as possible becasue of negotiated flat rates. Tests performed clinically by a doctor prescribing a potentialy abusable substance or in an ER or pre-op drug tests are MUCH more specific becasue they can bill the insurance for each test ran. They just recently passed a law where the labs can no longer have a standard req form to fill out by a nurse or MA checking off what needs to be tested for because these greedy labs were incentivising the staff to check off more panels. Medicare sets the standards for all this stuff and they came out will a bill that said the actual physician prescribing the test MUST sign off on each req form and panel tested and not staff. By Feb they overturned this. These labs have A LOT of power and say as to what goes on. Quest and LabCorp are the two EVIL EMPIRES. Billions and billions of dollars each year definitely gives them bargaining power when it comes to legislature. The whole industry, just like the medical industry in general, is so corrupt. Anywhere where there is this kind of money, it brings out the best of the best.
I am going to take a civil service exam for a job which hopefully will not begin before I complete school for what will be a government job. Are you saying that government drug testing are done as skinny as possible such that a hair follicle testing is unlikely. What about the health care industry---you're saying that a test for zolpidem is extremely rare?
That sounds infinitely complex, the relationships between labs and testing. I had to read that a few times before I understood it.
I have a question: I have a script for vicodin. If I get drug-tested via UA (the most likely method even at a hospital, from what I've learned) and it came up positive for opiates, and I had the prescription on my person (or the bottle in the car to prove it) would they just accept that as good enough proof? Because if they sent it on for gc/ms they might find, if it were on the checklist to test for, that I also take modafinil and ambien, neither of which I have a script for (or it's so long expired, that it's either worthless or it's lost) or are ambien and modafinil also very rare for a gc/ms screen?
You know it's funny that you were telling me they don't test for buprenorphine usually. When I was in outpatient intensive counseling for substance abuse, the counselor flat out told me before the test was conducted that they don't test for methadone or buprenorphine. And their funds were very tight (community mental health).
One more question. Does hair have to be a certain length to be tested for? I tried to convince my friend that he can shave his hair all he wants, that they'll be able to dig out a follicle somewhere and test it. Am I wrong, or is he wrong?
I like the shaving head theory. My PM clinic does a dip stick test that include both Oxy and hydro. Oxy shows up and hydro does not. Ambien does not show and they have a pretty exhaustive test which includes a bunch of benzos, methadone, fentanyl and a litany of other stuff I have never heard of.