Urinalysis

[Boogani]

My name is Ryan Cope and my company sets up and manages laboratories across the country focusing on toxicology. I could be a good resource if anyone has questions related to drug testing. Maybe my way of giving back to the community for all the valuable info I get from here. I won't feel as guilty feel free to PM or ask any related questions.

Kind Regards,
Ryan Cope

[evertking]

well.. you could take a look at my thread in this forum and give me your thoughts on how i could test pos on a random ten panel test and then have it sent for GC testing to confirm the positive result and then that test come back neg. Thanks!

[QVC1212]

@Boogani There is no such thing as too much information. What can you share with us? I would be interested in undetectable adulterants, if such a thing exists, for urinalysis. Or the shampoos I've heard of to screw up hair tests. Or anything to help pass a blood test.

For starters, how long does it take to clean benzos out of your system (assuming regular use at moderate doses)?

Plus, what articles can you refer us to in order to learn more about toxicology?

[Boogani]

The best possible resource as far as detection times and specific metabolites that screens will/will not detect are in package inserts for reagents or tests being used. There is a huge difference between tests traditionally performed "onsite" and those sent off to a lab for more specific methods. Onsite tests such as cup tests and dip tests are much easier to pass than lab quantification tests such as gc/ms or the newer lc/ms/ms. If you could let me know the environment where the test is being performed and the specific parent drug of concern I will do my best to inform you as much as possible. Toxicology labs are always right on the heals of adulterants but the majority of tests are performed with MUCH cheaper onsite methods. Something as simple as drinking gallons of water and urinating the first 3-4 times will show a negative on onsite tests but at a lab a creatinine test will easily show the level of dilution.

I will check this site as often as possible to answer questions for the community. I am an exclusive distributor for the largest manufacture of equipment and reagents for the pain management market My company literally sets up labs in physicians offices to do this very thing. If I don't know the answer, I have vast resources

I was looking for a new source for benzo's here and read about MedsXpress. I contacted Todd there and asked his advice of the safest order. I placed an order 3 days ago for 90 10 mg diazapam. Well see how it goes. If anyone has better advice I'm all ears. I appreciate this community. It is a valuable resource for sure. I also have a great source for raw steroid powders if anyone is interested.

Thanks all,

Boogani

[Boogani]

well.. you could take a look at my thread in this forum and give me your thoughts on how i could test pos on a random ten panel test and then have it sent for GC testing to confirm the positive result and then that test come back neg. Thanks!

There are several possibilities. I would need more information in order to list them for you. What drug class triggered a positive on the onsite test ? Gas Chromatography Mass Spectromitry is a very specific test. Issues can occur for instance when a given lab's confirmation profile only covers the most common metabolites for a specific drug class, like benzodiazepine for instance, and the onsite test is much more broad and can pick them all up. There are 17 benzo metabolites and most confirmation labs test for 4. Opiates is a similar issue. Most all benzo's metabolize at least partially as oxazapam. a confirmation lab typically gets paid the same whether the run 1 metabolite or 17 and it is much cheaper to run 1. That is one common cause for an inconsistancy. Another is immunochromotorgraphic onsite reagent strips are MUCH more susceptible to interference and false positives and negatives. Some as much as 13% ! so for every 100 patients tested, 13 could read a false reaction.

Give me as much info as you can and I'll try my best to pin it down for you. Also, if you could point me in some solid direction so that I can also get to worry about test results I would be appreciative

Regards,

Boogani

*This post was auto-merged. The following text was added 8 minutes after the last post:*

Ok. I found your post. Oxycodone will not test positive for opiates on an onsite test. There is a separate panel on a lot of the test configurations for oxy specifically. Hydrocodone is also a semi-synthetic and similar molecularly to oxy and will definitely trigger an oxy positive but most likely NOT and opi positive unless at very high ng/ml. So if one was taking vic's they would trigger a pos on the screen but if gc/ms was run on only specifically it would come back negative. Different onsite test oxy panels have different interference cut off levels with hydro. Some almost as low as oxy itself. One of the more widely used onsite tests by Branan Medical triggers an oxy pos at 500 ng/ml and the oxy sets off at 300.

Hope that helps and I apologize for not finding your post prior to responding the first time. There was some good info in there anyway

Kind Regards

[QVC1212]

@Boogani I read an article on different testing methods and methods of adulteration on medscape http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/562364 and it said that dilution was successful for on-site tests in 71% of cases (in their sample). They also suggested that eye drops were not an excellent adulterant because even though unlike commercially available adulterants such as urine luck, klear and whizzies, the eye drops could not be detectable by on the spot dipstick adulterant tests, eye drops would only mask thc levels and no other drugs. In other words, eye drops would pass a urine test for thc even with an adulterant check, and only if they sent it on to gas chromatography/mass spectrometry (which I guess is the gold standard for testing) would their presence be detected, but again, ONLY for thc.

I read about another case where dilution worked because ordinarily the kidneys can clear water from the system. But if salt is suddenly denied on a diet switched to vegetarian and 6 to 9 liters of water were drunk daily for four days that you could induce hyponatremia (pissing out all your electrolytes) and that the dilution would pass the urine test. My question is, could dilution still work if the hyponatremia were offset by drinking a half water and half gatorade solution such that you wouldn't accidentally kill yourself?

An article in the Journal of Substance Abuse Treatment said commercially available products are available such as at ipassedmydrugest.com What do you think of those products?

The article also said that all mouthwashes meant to pass saliva testing were bogus and ineffective, so that manner of testing would be ideal for law enforcement or DOT.

As to the hair follicle test, they said that there had been no scientific research conducted on the commercially available products meant to cleanse the hair of contaminants. Is this true or has research been done?

*This post was auto-merged. The following text was added 10 minutes after the last post:*

They also said that UrinAid (glutaraldehyde) adulterant would be an effective adulterant undetectable by an on the spot adulterant check and it would take a gc/ms to identify it.

They also said that urine luck, klear, and whizzies, some of which have potassium nitrite, could adulterate the test but be identified by an on the spot adulterant check test. Is that true?

What about the synthetic urine that can be warmed in the microwave or via patch taped to your leg for 60 minutes, with correct specific gravity, creatinine, pH, etc.? Can you recommend one?

Another interesting point that was made was that Australian poppy seeds were the most potent of any available in America and that they could easily trigger a false positive on opiate testing, but there is a cut-off (I think it's 42ng/ml) beyond which it couldn't have been poppy seeds. Could you blame an opioid positive test on a poppy bagel.

Bleach, though detectable as an adulterant, was also said to be effective as a masking agent because of its oxidizing properties. What do you think?

It also debunked some myths such as drinking vinegar, bleach or goldenseal tea would help pass a drug test.

Finally, I have conducted extensive research using my university's sciencedirect scholarly article database on benzodiazepine and opiate clearance. Some claim 7-10 days, others say all drugs except thc are out of your system enough to pass in 2-4 days, (for urine tests). Well, here let me provide the link and can you confirm if this is true or not?
Detection Time For Drug Tests

Also, you're a chemist. Is there an easy way to potentiate the effect of tramadol or convert it to its more potent cousin, O-desmethyltramadol?

I know this is a lot of questions. Please take your time I am patient. But I would appreciate the feedback.

[Boogani]

I spent the past 20 mns writing you a PM in response to yours and it would not let me send it to you as I have only 8 posts ! I saved it on my desktop and will try to get my number of posts up to be able to communicate with you directly. i would rather not put to much info up for anyone to have access to. I guess this will make 9

Handheld tests are easy to pass. once ANY liquid has been exposed to the pads on the test THAT is the liquid that will travel up the lateral flow device and create a read. So if you had eyedrops and just put enough in the cup to activate the strips and then filled the cup with your actual urine, the temp strip will read correctly and the test will read negative....unless you have cocaine eyedrops or something. It will be crucial to know what method is going to be used. I will try to get my posts up to be able to email you.

Thanks man

[NYJets]

@QVC1212

I am by no means an expert on the subject, but I can provide some insight on your poppy seed question.

Poppy seeds contain both Morphine and Codeine and can cause false positives for Opiates in urine tests. Most Opiate urine tests have a cut off level of 300 ng/ml. Ingestion of a single poppy seed bagel can produce an opiate level somewhere around 250 ng/ml three hours later. 3 teaspoons of store bought poppy seeds can result in 1200 ng/ml 6 hours later (1). We have read an estimate that 70% of DOT opiate positives are from poppy seeds. The U.S. Military uses cut off levels of 3000 ng/ml in order to minimize false positives.

The profile and levels of Opiates that show up in a urine test can generally be distinguished from Opiate use if care is taken...however it is not a simple thing and results are often mis-read by companies giving drug tests. If eaten recently and in great enough quantity, poppy seeds will result in positive morphine and codeine results, with morphine predominant. This can be distinguished from recent Codeine use because of the comparative levels of Morphine and Codeine present. However Codeine use in the past (not recent) can result in a similar profile as Morphine is a metabolite of Codeine. Codeine is eliminated from the system more quickly than Morphine, so an extended period after Codeine use, levels of Morphine may be higher than those of Codeine.

The Discovery Channel's MythBusters show did a piece testing whether poppy seeds could cause a false positive on an over-the-counter drug test. Two people were tested for opiates before the experiment began. Both tested negative on this initial test. One person then ate three poppy seed bagels and the other ate poppy seed cake. Both tested positive for opiates within 30 minutes of ingesting the seeds and continued to test positive until 16 hours after ingestion. The same brand of drug test was used in all cases. They called a number of manufacturers of over-the-counter drug tests and were told by all but one that poppy seeds could not cause a false positive.

From: Erowid Poppy Vaults : Drug Testing

If the urine is sent to a lab, they will be able to determine whether or not it was poppy seeds or another form of opiate. For on-site dip stick tests, it depends on the ng/ml. I know my doctor uses one with 2000ng/ml, so a false negative is highly unlikely. A higher ng/ml cutoff level will reduce the possibilities of false negatives.

EDIT: As far as your opiate/benzo question. I've taken over 50 on-site urine tests and I have never failed when I left myself with at least 4 days. Sure, I've passed after 24-72 hours plenty of times, but have also failed a few. This is just my personal experience and these were all on-site tests. I know the lab tests have a longer detection period since they can test for very low ng/ml levels. I was also an extremely heavy user of opiates during most of this time. I just thought I would mention that because I know detection levels are different for daily doses and recreational doses.

[QVC1212]

@steve032 That's some fascinating stuff. I rated it helpful. Also, that's good to know that a minimum of 4 days for benzos is required for sure, possibly 24-72 hours maybe.

I wanted to add a few things I've learned since re-reading the article which I read when I was overly tired last night: First, an effective way of passing a drug test is to drink one gallon of water along with either "The Stuff", "Fizzy Flush", Quick Flush Drug Detox Capsules" or "Green Clean Drug Detox Drink" or any in vivo adulterants which contain b-vitamins to restore the natural color of urine and creatine to restore creatinine levels to normal.

Bleach works but only for opioids, and is easily detected by a couple of adulterant dipstick checks.

For benzos, Just Clean, Clean-X or Urine Aid will work but will show up on an adulterant dipstick test.

Diuretics such as furosemide (lasix) or hydrochlorothiazide will help to flush your system of toxins more quickly, but not instantly.

Most surprisingly, I learned that most dishwashing detergents and soaps will adulterate the sample and be undetectable as an adulterant with the exception of liquid hand soap. Liquid hand soap will actually cause false positive results, which is the opposite of what you want.

Finally, I was wrong about the hair research---there is some being conducted to see if contaminants can be reduced by a cleansing solution for a hair follicle test.

If I forgot to mention, NOTHING works with a saliva swab test. All commercially available products claiming to work with saliva swab tests are bogus.

Looks like nothing will work with a hair follicle test either. The drug is incorporated into the matrix and then keratinized inside the follicle, so cleaning the outside part of the hair would do absolutely nothing.

And I'd be careful of any commercial adulterants sold on the net. Some produce false negatives (good thing) for certain drugs, but some produce false positives (bad!!!) for other drugs such as PCP. And once it gets sent to the lab for gc/ms, that's it, you're cooked. gc/ms will detect any conceivable adulterant plus the toxin. and newer methods are being developed all the time.

Hope this helps some people.

See, this is the problem with researching drug testing. The only surefire way to pass a drug test is not to take any drugs, or have a prescription for it.

Remember the member who said benzos would disappear within four days out of your system? Look at this comment from Mayoclinic.com:
http://www.mayoclinicproceedings.com...t/83/1/66.full
Agents that are extensively metabolized with long half-lives (eg, diazepam, chlordiazepoxide) can be detected in the urine up to 30 days after ingestion. As noted previously, extensively metabolized drugs are detected in the urine as their metabolites, not as the parent drug.

What is one to think? What is the answer? Are there any answers?

[NYJets]

@QVC1212

I sincerely apologize for not including such an important fact in my previous post. When I mentioned benzos, I was exclusively talking about Alpralozam. I really have no experience with drug tests and other benzos. Again, I apologize that I left this out, as I realize they all have different half-lives. As far as opiates, most of my experience comes from the worst of them all, but my above post refers to nearly the entire opiate family. I would take Suboxone for a few days before the test to pass and not go through withdrawals. Suboxone will not show up on any on-site dip-stick test unless they are specifically testing for it (which I have never seen, nor heard of happening). This was straight from my doctor's mouth and personal experience with many tests.

Also, I recently passed a test for Xanax literally after hours of taking it. I was never a believer in detox drinks before, but at this point I had to try anything. I drank a QCarbo32 (I think that was the name) and passed. You are supposed to drink it 2 hours before the test and then fill it back up with water and drink it again. Then you are supposed to urinate 2-4 times before the test. My urine was literally neon green/yellow when I provided my sample. It might have been the drink or pure luck, but somehow I passed. I wouldn't recommend you take that route unless absolutely necessary.

EDIT: Forgot to thank you for your helpful and informative post. I'm fortunate to be opiate free, minus the subs, so I don't have to worry about these tests any more. However, this information will definitely have helped me out and will help out other members here.

[QVC1212]

A scholarly article on urine drug screening also had this to say, which contradicts merck.com, so steve032 there may not be reason to apologize:

Additionally, most drugs are only present in urine for 2±3 days after consumption so that only recent drug use will be detected.

I'm glad you found the article helpful. As a result of all my research on drug testing, I have decided that the only feasible course of action is to stop taking any drugs which I am not prescribed, since only synthetic urine has a 100% success rate, and I do not want to do my job walking around with a bottle of synthetic urine and warming patch all day, every day. I have already stopped opiates, and should be clean off them in a day or so if I am not already. The benzos will be more difficult, however, as I have terrible insomnia. What I need to buy online is ambien, which does not show up on a standard immunoassay for urine, or saliva swab. And blood tests are invasive and less common, so I'm not worried about that. Employers are too lazy to blood test people for tox screens---they'd rather just use urine dipsticks and if it's positive send the urine off for testing at a lab using gas chromotagraphy/mass spectrometry.

So really, the jury is still out on how long diazepam will stay in your system via urine tox screens. Anywhere from 4-30 days, based on different scholarly articles and ordinary internet searches from medscape and merck.com

[Boogani]

QVC1212,

The most fool proof method of adulteration would be a device like the whizzanator. These type devices are "strap-on" life like dicks with a heated reservoir of reconstituted urine that will pass ALL adulteration tests. These devices are very life like and even in an observed situation can pass. The issue is having it somewhere where you can put it on before taking the test. Again, until you know the process for your drug tests it will be tough to formulate a plan. Most are known at least a few hours if not days before the actual sample is provided. In rare cases do they grab you unaware and force you into a bathroom but you never know. Maybe you know someone already interning at this same facility that you can gain info from. Like I said before, the more info you have on the type of test, collection device, environment that you can gather the more we can come up with. Saliva tests are adulterant proof but detection times for most any drug is no more than 36 - 48 hrs at MOST. THC is lucky to trigger a positive 4 hours after smoking.

I hope you are well, I will not be traveling this week, which is a ****ing GIFT, and would be happy to engage in some conversation. You are certainly a thinker and one thirsty for knowledge. Always up for good conversation. Let me know and thanks for the PM. After this post I have 8 left I think....Im getting there..

Kind Regards

[Boogani]

Part of what my company does is distribute hand held cup drug screens. We sell hundred of thousands monthly. If you'd like, I could send you some as "samples" and can just write it off. You could experiment with yourself recording detection times and methods. Let me know. I'll have the office send you some Monday along with package inserts that shows ALL cross reactivities and sensitivities.

Kind Regards,

Ps : that's 12 posts ! 8 more to go !

[NYJets]

@QVC1212 Congratulations on stopping the opiates! It's not an easy thing and you should be very proud of your accomplishments thus far. Please let me know if you have any questions regarding stopping opiates and/or withdrawals, as I've dealt with this many times in the past. If you wouldn't mind providing some more information on the opiates you were taking and how you are going about detoxing, I would be more than happy to provide some advice or just be there for support. You can shoot me a PM if you don't want it on a public forum, or if you wish to keep that information private, I completely understand.

Anyway, sorry to get off topic here, but best of luck to you QVC and many of us are here if you need any support.

Also, to get back on topic, I was under the impression that blood tests many times would only show drugs that you have been using in the past 24 hours or so. I had a friend who got a DUI and they had to administer a blood screening because that was the only way they could tell if he was high when he was driving. A urine test in this scenario would be useless, as somebody could have taken a pill several days before driving and still fail the test, and that would no way prove that they were under the influence at the time they were pulled over. DISCLAIMER: I am just going by what my friend and I talked about, and he could have been completely wrong.

Anyway I believe you are correct, I doubt a blood test would be done in the situation you are describing. I'm sure they are much, much more expensive than an on-site dip-stick test, and most work places opt for the cheapest method. However, if this is a government job, a job that requires a security clearance, a job where you are in control of expensive equipment, etc than who knows what method of testing they would use. And if the stuff I mentioned above about blood testing, it wouldn't be the most effective way of determining an employee's drug use, as it can only test as far back as a day or so.

[Boogani]

Blood analysis is very similar in detection times to saliva. Steve032 is correct. For example. If you have not taken anything in over a week, just decided to take anything orally, in pill form, this substance would NOT show up in a urine test for approx 6-8 hrs. Urine is what your kidneys filter out of your bloodstream and it takes a while for the pills to digest, absorb into the blood stream, convert to whatever metabolite they convert to in your liver, then get filtered out of your system by your kidneys and piss it out. Similarly it takes a while to be detected in your blood and not for that long as your kidneys clean it out. This is the reason it is detectable for longer in urine as it is collected here for removal. Blood is very very rarely used unless it is a situation where they cannot get a urine sample. Saliva and blood are more for being under the influence at the moment and urine and hair are for past use. Hair is very unreliable as you said, QVC1212, there are lots of faults with this method. Urine will always be the gold standard and Mass Spec testing whether it be gas or liquid mass spec is the most specific.

[QVC1212]

I was in an accident once and blood analysis is what they used. It detected a virtual pharmacy, all of which I had a script for except for one. I was lucky to escape with reckless driving (I had a very, very good attorney).

@Boogani I got a clinical handbook on psychotropic drugs and it indicated that the elimination half-life for diazepam metabolites is 30-200 hours. Does that mean it would be detectable in urine for 30-200 hours? because that translates to 1.25 - 8.33 days. It also said that males have a higher clearance rate than females. Is that consistent with your knowledge of benzodiazepine clearance?

Interesting that you mentioned urine and the gc/ms as the gold standard as I came across that statement many times in my research. I wonder what the key ingredient is in the whizzinator (can you recommend a website to purchase it from?) that is undetectable by adulterant-detectors yet is still able to mask the toxins?

Also, this is from wikipedia:

On October 14, 2008, federal prosecutors in Pittsburgh won a 19-count indictment against Puck Technology, maker of the Whizzinator, and its owners for fraud and selling drug paraphernalia. Prosecutors allege that by manufacturing and selling the Whizzinator, Puck Technology, company president Gerald Wills and vice president Robert Catalano conspired to defraud the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, which administers federal workplace drug testing programs. The government is seeking forfeiture of all of the company's assets, including its Internet domain names.[1]

On November 24, Puck Technology, Wills and Catalano pleaded guilty in a Pittsburgh federal court to one count of conspiracy to defraud the government and one count of conspiracy to sell drug paraphernalia. Wills and Catlano were scheduled to be sentenced in February 2009. They could face up to eight years in prison and a $800,000 fine.[2][3][4]

The company's Websites, whizzinator.com and gonumber1.com, were no longer live as of November 2008.

In April 2010 Willis was sentenced to six months of prison and Catalaon was sentenced to three years of probation.[5]

As of March 2011, the Whizzinator is being marketed by Alternative Lifestyle Systems for $139.95 through High Times magazine as a strap-on "wet sex simulator" containing "synthetic urine", allegedly for synthetic watersports activity. A similar, competing device called the Pissinator is also advertised.[6][7

That's $140!!! I can't spend that kind of money on it. I might as well just get clean and stay clean.

As far as finding out more information about the job, it will be working for a hospital is all I can say, and first there is an internship, and during the internship I'm pretty sure they don't test (or it would've been in their handbook that they gave me for the internship) but I'm 100% like all hospitals that IF, and that's a big IF, I get hired there, that they do test. In which case I have to be clean or be prepared.

I'm tempted to admit to my doctor that I've been taking high doses of benzos for a month and a half so he'll write me a script for them in order to taper, at a low dose, like 0.25mg xanax, because unlike opiates which I was not really addicted to (although I did stop, for now, though who knows for how long with the pain issues I have) I definitely am addicted to benzos.

[Boogani]

Hey QVC, It blocked out your email after @ so I got the first part. I think only have a few more posts and Ill be allowed to message. Ill have them sent to you Monday and send you the tracking number so you'll know when they are coming. They are 11 or 12 panel. Should cover all your bases. Believe it or not, hand held tests can trigger a positive for many more benzo's than confirmation typically because to confirm using mass spec they have to confirm each separate metabolite so they usually only run the 3 r 4 most common metabolites or parent drugs. Thats why there are a lot of positives on an inital screen in employment testing for benzo's and when they send off for confirmation it comes back negative.

I had been in and out of recovery for the past 11 years. Things have gotten really good for me career wise and started dabbling with things about 6 months ago. I originally got clean when I was 21 after spending 4 years in and out of jail. Heroin and crack. I have no veins left. It was really ugly. Currently I take valium occasionally and some buprenorphine (keeps me safe, If i have the urge to do a real opiate I have 48 hrs to wait and by then Ive more than talked myself out of it). Definitely playing with fire but so far Ive been ok. Maybe with all I have going for me I wont let myself take the next steps. It gets ugly really fast once i cross the line. There is NO substitution for being completely abstinent. I have no excuses . Taking any mind or mood altering substance kills your soul. Prevents me from really feeling alive.

[QVC1212]

Did it block out the address? Hopefully it didn't block the first PM I sent you, where I thanked you for the information. There's no substitute for an expert. This should help me to self-test to know whether or not I'm good to go for a real test.

You are right there is no substitute for abstinence. My mind would be much clearer if it weren't for the valium in my system right now (10mg). Cognitive impairment is an unfortunate side effect of what is now my preferred drug of choice. I too am playing with fire as I don't know if I'll be drug-tested during this internship, but if I am, I just spoke to a licensed pharmacist who said it's at least 7 days and can be as long as 30, depending on duration, dosage and metabolism of the user as well as whether dilution methods are used or not for the drug valium. He discouraged me from adulterants, even the detergent which is supposed to be undetectable by any adulterant-dipstick test, because it might do something strange to the urine and raise suspicion, and there is no specification as to how MUCH detergent is needed in order to adulterate it. I didn't ask him about synthetic urine. Instead he said to come clean with my psychiatrist. I like my psychiatrist though and I'm afraid he might switch me to another one. The pharmacy tech is in AA too and is determined to stay clean---he was sneaking valium with impunity, since anything sched III - V is kept in the same drawyers, so the valium might be next to the venlaxafine. He actually got caught for pot of all things though. There is some kind of program that allows him to keep his license and job if he goes through all these things and pays $600/mo and can't even drink alcohol. Did you know there is a metabolite from alcohol that can be tested for up to 3 days after drinking? So he can't even have a beer on a Friday night.

Boogani, it sounds as though your life was hell and now it's back on track. I would encourage you to insure that your medicines ingested are all prescribed. For instance, today I was suicidally depressed until I went to an AA meeting, and the high dosages of valium of 80-90mg daily are no doubt a part of that problem. Be careful with the valium. With me it started legitimately, then became a problem. Opiates, thank God, were never a problem, not addicted to them, I just need them for pain, and the damn docs won't write me a script for them except tramadol, which has its own issues. But I'm rambling.

If you ever need a favor, or advice, let me know, since I owe you one.

Isn't that the point of medicine? Being alive is psychic, physical, mental and spiritual pain. Maybe not all the time, but in all of its facets, and at some point for everyone. Medicine treats that pain. Medicine is a miracle. I thank God I live in an era where there is medicine for the conditions that I have.

cheers,
qvc1212

[QVC1212]

@Boogani Do you happen to know the fatally toxic threshold for benzodiazepines, not inter-mixed with other depressants? How many would it take? I'm concerned for a friend of mine.

[Dbrent]

ive always thought that the weirdest thing when adulterating urine tests is that some of them test the temperature, even when you use warm water, it still doesnt seem to be as effective as urine, maybe urine comes out REALLY warm, im not sure.