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Thread: Oxy and Hydro will be added to the standard 5 panel....it not tested for now and it will be oral not a UA

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    Default Oxy and Hydro will be added to the standard 5 panel....it not tested for now and it will be oral not a UA

    The Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA) announced last week.....last week of January 2013...that it has accepted the recommendations of its technical advisory committee, the Drug Testing Advisory Board (DTAB), and will proceed with revisions to the Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS) Mandatory Guidelines for Federal Workplace Drug Testing Programs. The changes will include: (1) expanding the drug testing panel to include additional Schedule II prescription medications (e.g. hydrocodone, hydromorphone, oxycodone, and oxymorphone), prescription painkiller opioid drugs, and (2) including oral fluid as an alternative specimen for Federal workplace drug testing programs. The additions of testing for prescription medications and having oral fluid as a specimen for drugs of abuse testing are seen as measures to strengthen the existing federal drug abuse prevention and control programs.

    The revisions to the DHHS Guidelines will establish the laboratory methods, cut-off levels and reporting standards for testing for additional Schedule II controlled substances, including many of the prescription opioid painkiller medications that are more widely prescribed, misused, and abused than ever before. The ability to test for these drugs in the Federal drug testing programs which apply to safety-sensitive and security critical employees in the public and private employment sectors is expected to improve workplace safety and serve to deter and detect misuse and abuse of these substances. (For more information of prescription drug abuse and accidents see EDPM Blog Jan 25, 2012)

    The addition of oral fluid as a specimen for drug testing is important on two counts. First, it helps address the continuing concerns about adulteration, substitution, and tampering with urine specimens in workplace testing. Oral fluid specimens are more difficult to compromise. Second, oral fluid collections are essentially an “observed collection” without additional invasion of privacy concerns, and provide an alternative for individuals who cannot produce adequate, acceptable urine specimens for drug testing purposes.

    The US Department of Transportation (DOT) has voiced its support for SAMHSA’s actions, and will follow with rulemaking to amend its drug testing regulations that govern drug testing of over 9 million workers in transportation occupations. The DOT is required by law to follow HHS procedures for the drugs for which it tests and the specimens it tests.

    This is GOOD NEWS for workplace drug testing! It will give employers more tools in achieving drug-free workplaces and improve the efficacy of drug testing programs. The frustration for everyone is that it will not happen overnight! The federal rulemaking process is a deliberate one and there will be many months ahead of proposed rules, comment periods, further evaluation and data collection, final regulations, and implementation schedules. BUT….it’s progress! The strength of the Federal drug testing regulations over the past two plus decades has been the thoroughness with which the procedures, processes, legal implications, and other factors have been vetted and examined by all the stakeholders—and these latest changes will be no exception.

    THE ABOVE WAS RELEASED LAST WEEK.

    FYI Oxy is from made from thebain not the poppy. There is lots of confusion on this subject. A standard 5 panel is for opiates...codien, morphine, opium, herion.....now if u have more than a standard 5 panel u can test for synthetic opiates....and that specfically test for those metabolites. I have been in charge of drug testing in many of my positions....or get tested because I work for oil and gas and under the DOT pipeline rule I fall under the emergency response provision....so I know more about this shit than I wish to know.

    Also a comapny can give any test they want if it is not under a regulated test...for example under the FMCSR's or the PHMSA Part 199 it is regulated and YOU MUST GIVE THE 5 PANEL. If is not regulated u can give a 12 panel.

    Also a lie that many companies will tell you....you have to notify me of any drugs ur on for safety sensative positions....they say if you test positive the doctor will let them know. WRONG. For example I just got a 5 panel for PHMSA and tested positive for amphetamines. I have a script for adderal and that is my buisness. So what happens after u test positive the MRO...Medical Review Officer...will call you and ask if there is a legitimate reason I tested positive. I say yes I am perscribed Adderall. They then verify Perscription and doctor. Under a regulated test they must send a letter to my doc that she needs to respond to within 5 days that Adderral does not affect my safety....as the MRO said these letters are usually a formality because the meds is usually perscribed to make u better! So she send back letter to MRO that its OK. My emplyer never sees this process. They know that somethings up because result takes longer to get...but they are excluded from this process. A non regulated drug test the MRO only verifies that you have a script! Again you employer does not see this...

    Oh and here are the Steps to rule making...

    -Legislation. The U.S. Congress passes a law, containing an organic statute that creates a new administrative agency, and that outlines general goals the agency is to pursue through its rulemaking. Similarly, Congress may prescribe such goals and rulemaking duties to a pre-existing agency.

    -Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking. This optional step entails publishing the agency's initial analysis of the subject matter, often asking for early public input on key issues. Any data or communications regarding the upcoming rule would be made available to the public for review. Occasionally, a board of potentially affected parties is comprised to do give-and-take bargaining over rulemaking subject-matter which would otherwise result in deadlocked opposition by an interested party.[2] This is commonly called "negotiated rulemaking",[2] and results in more custom-tailored proposed rule.

    -Proposed Rule. In this step, the agency publishes the actual proposed regulatory language in the Federal Register; in which a discussion of the justification and analysis behind the rule is printed, as well as the agency's response to any public comment on the advance notice.

    -Public comment. Once a proposed rule is published in the Federal Register, a public comment period begins, allowing the public to submit written comments to the agency. Most agencies are required to respond to every issue raised in the comments. Depending on the complexity of the rule, comment periods may last for 30 to even 180 days.

    -Final Rule. Usually, the proposed rule becomes the final rule with some minor modifications. In this step, the agency publishes a full response to issues raised by public comments and an updated analysis and justification for the rule, including an analysis of any new data submitted by the public. In some cases, the agency may publish a second draft proposed rule, especially if the new draft is so different from the proposed rule that it raises new issues that have not been submitted to public comment. This again appears in the Federal Register, and if no further steps are taken by the public or interested parties, is codified into the Code of Federal Regulations.

    -Judicial review. In some cases, members of the public or regulated parties file a lawsuit alleging that the rulemaking is improper. While courts generally offer significant deference to the agency's technical expertise, they do review closely whether the regulation exceeds the rulemaking authority granted by the authorizing legislation and whether the agency properly followed the process for public notice and comment.

    -Effective date. Except in extraordinary circumstances, the rule does not become effective for some time after its initial publication to allow regulated parties to come into compliance. Some rules provide several years for compliance.

    -"Hybrid" rulemaking. Not a legal term of art, but describes the kind of rulemaking performed by agencies that is somewhere between formal (with a hearing and record) and informal (with the notice and comment procedures described above). Hybrid rulemaking generally subsumes procedural aspects reserved for adjudication, such as a formal hearing in which interested parties are sworn and subject to cross examination.
    Helpful justified, LiveLoveLaugh Rated helpful


  2. #2
    The unfortunate part of this rule making proposal is that for DOT tests covering long-haul truckers, schools bus drivers, etc. there is no screening for fully synthetic opioids like methadone, fentanyl or Demerol.
    Personally, I would prefer to avoid being on a highway or having my children driven to school with a driver actively using any of these drugs.
    Maybe some day the DOT will wake up about this potential problem.
    Helpful Allycat, waterlogged Rated helpful
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by alumni View Post
    The unfortunate part of this rule making proposal is that for DOT tests covering long-haul truckers, schools bus drivers, etc. there is no screening for fully synthetic opioids like methadone, fentanyl or Demerol.
    Personally, I would prefer to avoid being on a highway or having my children driven to school with a driver actively using any of these drugs.
    Maybe some day the DOT will wake up about this potential problem.
    I most certainly agree with you alumni. I may be wrong here but I do believe long haul truckers are paid per mile, or by whatever they are hauling, and the faster they get there, the faster they can get back to home base or hook up another load, and the longer they have to pull over and sleep thats time wasted when they can be making money. I used to take provigil so I could work double and triple shifts when the recesssion hit, and provigil didnt do much of anything so I began using phentermine again even though I didnt need it medically, but could get a script for it because according to BMI Im overweight, even though its muscle. And after that stopped working a guy I did work for would give me his amephetimines he was prescribed for narcoloepsy. Its funny though when you mentioned bus drivers, right now all school bus drivers in the 5 boros are on strike, and my pain mangement doc was doing UAs that day and he left his scripts on the seat next to me and he had MS contin 100, oxy 30s and soma. The buses here are private otherwise they couldnt strike but its not comforting to know that you can take that much shit and drive a bus full of kids. I work in a psych hospital and park my ass at a desk, big difference in safety factor as far as my job and his goes, even though Im working with literal psychopaths who have been demed unfit to stand trial, its like a super max prison, they are locked down 22 hrs a day, and are only allowed in a small courtyard which you need to go through 3 seperate locked doors, and should more than one be open at the same time an alarm goes off. You can tell your emplyer you only take your meds when off duty, but its a crock of shit. And I wouldnt want to be in the bus when we do prison transfers, when some 18 wheeler or bus driver is either too up or down and doesnt notice hes crossing the median right into the side of us, while we have schizophrenic rapist in the bus as it gets hit and we go flying off the road....
    Last edited by Pangaea; 02-05-2013 at 01:37 AM.
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by alumni View Post
    The unfortunate part of this rule making proposal is that for DOT tests covering long-haul truckers, schools bus drivers, etc. there is no screening for fully synthetic opioids like methadone, fentanyl or Demerol.
    Personally, I would prefer to avoid being on a highway or having my children driven to school with a driver actively using any of these drugs.
    Maybe some day the DOT will wake up about this potential problem.
    I would like to see an unbiased study quantifying driver impairment based on dosages of all the commonly prescribed opiates/opioids. I would like to see them take into account tolerance, frequency of use, etc., particularly focusing on people who are taking the drug regularly and in a regimented fashion as opposed to those using occasionally for recreation or infrequent pain issues.

    I say this because I do not believe you would find a statistically significant degree of driver impairment in those people who are daily users of these drugs at the properly prescribed dosages.

    You mentioned methadone, and I clearly remember reading multiple independent studies that concluded maintenance doses of methadone caused NO measurable degree of impairment over people taking nothing. Yet I would gladly concede that at high enough doses or in the recreational/infrequent user methadone would certainly cause a measurable degree of impairment in just about every category.

    In a perfect world, someone pulled over or in an accident would be tested for impairment level, and cited based on that rather than toxicology tests. This way, someone who took their prescribed dose of vicodin could be distinguished from someone abusing the drug and driving impaired. Unfortunately, I don't think this will ever happen. So if we are going to use drug tests to determine legal impairment, I would rather see the laws be more liberal, as I believe 5 guilty people being let go is not nearly as bad as one innocent person getting put in jail or prison. Given my opinion, then, I am glad that the DOT isn't trying to "tackle" the prescription drug "problem" because I believe we are more likely to end up with worse laws and a worse situation than we now have.

    Even from a practical standpoint, given that hydrocodone has been in the top 3 most prescribed drugs in the USA for at least a few years now (and has been #1 at times), strict laws about "drugged driving" will end up punishing or imprisoning massive amounts of unimpaired drivers. It also creates potentially huge problems with privacy of medical information, since stricter enforcement will necessitate better testing, and test results will become public information under FOI requests when you are dealing with state or federal criminal proceedings. That's my 2 cents.
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    I am a dope (no pun intended) about opiates, etc, but so many things besides drugs cause bad driving: being angry, distracted, texting, talking on cell, having a headache, (or being unwell), being in labor (eh, happened to me!) & being over fatigued. Again the WOD is very profitable for someone...probably the politicians and the manufacturers of drug tests! JMVVHO... Sweet E

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    I am very conflicted about drug testing in general. I agree that impairment should be the criteria, and not the simplistic question about whether someone has drugs in their system or not. You can be significantly impaired on drugs that are never tested for -- muscle relaxants for example which can make you loopier than if you were on an opiate. My uncomfortableness with drug testing is because of its use as a tool in the "Drug War". Addiction is a reflection of many problems in any given society. Throwing people in jail in order to control drug use does immeasurable harm to our society. And it costs billions while wrecking individual's lives along with their family. For the cost of one year's worth of incarceration, you can send someone to college and fundamentally improve their life.

  7. I agree with @Nutella_Bear on this along with the other 2 post above them. i know this is an old thread but thought i would give it a kick because it really hits home with me. i am prescribed oxys and hydros and xanax and zanaflex and of all those drugs the zanaflex has more of an effect on me that any other. If i am having anxiety i cant think straight. if i am in alot of pain I do not concentrate very well. and as long as i have been on PK's and xanax, a person would never know i take anything unless I told them. And I tell almost no one, but the zanaflex is a different story, I will not take it while i am working. I can hardly keep my eyes open while taking this med and will only take it before sleep. The problem with this is alot of my problems are muscle related and im suppose to take it 3 x a day, but thats not possible. I really hate the prejudice that comes with taking a certian medication. I have said and will always say there are problems with these meds but its the dependency that I have issues with. But unfortunatly thats just part of it.

  8. So I know this question has been asked and answered but there are different answers. The question is will oxycodone show up on a 5 panel dot test? I would really appreciate an answer from someone who really knows the answer to this question as I am thinking of applying for a job and altho I have valid scripts for them it is sometimes best to keep this to myself . TIA

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    Quote Originally Posted by waterlogged View Post
    So I know this question has been asked and answered but there are different answers. The question is will oxycodone show up on a 5 panel dot test? I would really appreciate an answer from someone who really knows the answer to this question as I am thinking of applying for a job and altho I have valid scripts for them it is sometimes best to keep this to myself . TIA
    This is a old post but it pisses me off badly some of the ignorant replies by non-commercial drivers @waterlogged No it won't show up, It dosn't break done in morphine metobolites that will trigger a postive for opiates

    And to the above posts saying truckers should have to do this or that test , there dangerous without that testing.. You haven't got a clue unless your a Driver, look at the statitics of accidents involving a commerical driver The DOT cites 79%, NHTSA 71% of accident involving semi is the fault of the motorist ..i.e. damn 4 wheelers...they have no idea how long it takes to stop 80,000 lbs and will cut you off for a exit , tail gateing not knowing you cannot see them in your mirriors , ride in your blind spot ,even with posted stickers on truck this is a blind spot danger////

    Truck drivers on average are more resonsible then 85% of average motorist out therein general , when a 4 wheeler screws up we take the hit ,and take it to ditch/barrier whatever to try to save that motorist life at the risk of our own..Where always taught to look for a out if someone else screws up.
    We take random drug test NIDIA's 5 all the time ..I'm sorry If you don't like what it cover tuff sh$t

    Why don't we have anyone with a license try to take random NIDIA 5's and if you test postive, have your license revoked for 3 years... that would be fair..

    And if you dispute this you need to watch this please http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxygoUW0KY0 ....Many of my breathen have fallen to save you and your famlies life..Have some respect
    Last edited by Rexxen; 10-21-2013 at 02:08 PM.
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    You have no Idea how many rules and regulations we have to follow to be DOT compliant, Hours of Service, Brake Adjusments,, Have you ever went thought a lvl 1 or 2 DOT inspection? Though a scale house?? I could go on and on with examples of rules that are 20x more strict then any motorist would have to follow but it would be a waste of my time....

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Rexxen View Post
    This is a old post but it pisses me off badly some of the ignorant replies by non-commercial drivers @waterlogged No it won't show up, It dosn't break done in morphine metobolites that will trigger a postive for opiates

    And to the above posts saying truckers should have to do this or that test , there dangerous without that testing.. You haven't got a clue unless your a Driver, look at the statitics of accidents involving a commerical driver The DOT cites 79%, NHTSA 71% of accident involving semi is the fault of the motorist ..i.e. damn 4 wheelers...they have no idea how long it takes to stop 80,000 lbs and will cut you off for a exit , tail gateing not knowing you cannot see them in your mirriors , ride in your blind spot ,even with posted stickers on truck this is a blind spot danger////

    Truck drivers on average are more resonsible then 85% of average motorist out therein general , when a 4 wheeler screws up we take the hit ,and take it to ditch/barrier whatever to try to save that motorist life at the risk of our own..Where always taught to look for a out if someone else screws up.
    We take random drug test NIDIA's 5 all the time ..I'm sorry If you don't like what it cover tuff sh$t

    Why don't we have anyone with a license try to take random NIDIA 5's and if you test postive, have your license revoked for 3 years... that would be fair..

    And if you dispute this you need to watch this please NIGHTMARES OF TRUCKING - YouTube ....Many of my breathen have fallen to save you and your famlies life..Have some respect
    I understand what ur saying but not all people who get random DOT test drive trucks, like me, I am a mechanic. 2nd not all people are affected by PK's like some. I have had 2 doc's one a PCP another a neurologist tell me I don't show signs of being on these meds, even wrote letters saying so, but not everyone is the same. so I think most of that is being prejudice, I am on these meds and at the top of my class and these truck driving schools don't teach people how to drive a truck they run you through the class, get paid, and get ready for the the next paying customer. Now don't get me wrong some drivers are top notch but some have no business behind the wheel. This goes for others with DOT jobs. I have said this before but most people do just fine on pk's but give them benzos or soma and they don't need to get out of bed. But your right, it's just most people don't wreck due to PK's. If that were so it would apply to all drivers but how many times do you hear about bob wrecking because he was on PK's. Not much. It's mostly due to the ones who buy legal alcohol. And dumbasses.
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    [QUOTE=waterlogged;495461]I understand what ur saying but not all people who get random DOT test drive trucks, like me, I am a mechanic. 2nd not all people are affected by PK's like some. I have had 2 doc's one a PCP another a neurologist tell me I don't show signs of being on these meds, even wrote letters saying so, but not everyone is the same. so I think most of that is being prejudice, I am on these meds and at the top of my class and these truck driving schools don't teach people how to drive a truck they run you through the class, get paid, and get ready for the the next paying customer. Now don't get me wrong some drivers are top notch but some have no business behind the wheel. This goes for others with DOT jobs. I have said this before but most people do just fine on pk's but give them benzos or soma and they don't need to get out of bed. But your right, it's just most people don't wreck due to PK's. If that were so it would apply to all drivers but how many times do you hear about bob wrecking because he was on PK's. Not much. It's mostly due to the ones who buy legal alcohol. And dumbasses.[/Q

    Agree 100%
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  13. One that sticks out in my head was a story abpot 9 people in a semi, drinking and they killed alot of folks. And a friend of mine's dad was a driver and on meth and screwed up pretty bad. He atcually got his DL back. Now thats a problem, And like I said PK's do not effect everyone the same. You can not tell im on them but others shouldn't be allowed to walk down the street so I don't know what the answer is. Just that more needs to be considered before giving or revoking a DL. Truly JMO, WL

  14. This is most interesting. I had to have a drug test for a healthcare institution not long ago. In my system, I had hydrocodone, oxycodone, diazepam, and soma. It should have looked like godzilla pee but the only drug they asked about was diazepam...


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