Now getting drug tested by my PM doc. : (

[dingleberry]

My pain management doctor just started doing urine analysis
BUT..hes a great guy, talked to him, doesn't care if I test positive for thc (marijuana) which I told him I use occasionally. He said he does not care what I do in my free time. he just wants to know im taking my medication, and not getting opiates from multiple docgtors is all he is really caring about, and he just wants to cover his ass from scrutiny or board reviews for prescribing narcotics. He isnt even concerned or checking for marijuana he said, Although, when looking at the cup I did notice it was checking for THC, Oxy, amoung other things. (I am currently prescribed hydro by him.) I feel lucky I am in a laid back situation, with a kind relaxed doctor, even if he UA's me now I figure its in an inconvieience and a little violation of privacy, embarrassing a bit, etc. but since hes such a nice guy I don't have a problem doing my part to help him cover himself so he can be around for a long time and have piece of mind againt being targeted by the gestapo, ehem, I mean DEA. Sucks this is happening to so many patients now. I recommend being upfront with your doctor and see what they say, many are not so concerned about a positive test for thc or so fourth, depends on the doctor. They really are just trying to cover their ass and many hate the fact they have to do it and are just as embarased and resentful for it as we are.

[UGAgal]

I am so glad he understands and that you still have y our PM doc. As you said some just are not compassionate about things

[betsky]

@dingleberry
I am surprised you have'nt been tested from the start. I know of zero pain management offices where i'm located that don't have in there standard contract random u/a's.

[mark129395]

As far as I know most long term pain patients usually are drug screened to see if they are taking there medication or taking other illicit drugs. Seems like a invasion of privacy but they do it just to cover there ass from the dea. My suboxone doctor drug tests me and wouldn't care if I tested positive for pot it just has to show that I tested positive for suboxone. She is actually really laid back and is a ex alcoholic.

[Lynx4]

Please be careful. We've had 3 members (who have told us anyway) lose their pm docs in the last month for having THC in their system. One of them was told it was no problem only to get kicked out soon after. The truth is that if the DEA checks his records and sees patients with drugs in their system that are illegal the doctor could end up in serious trouble. He may decide at any point that the risk is too great and let you go. I can't imagine the terror I'd feel if I lost my doctor and had to go back to living in full blown pain 24/7.

My doctor is the coolest, most laid back person ever who isn't afraid to prescribe anything you may need, but if any patient came back with anything in their system other than what he prescribed he would immediately switch them to Suboxone. Although it's better than being left in the cold, Sub doesn't help pain as much as opiods/opiates so you still have the pain to deal with.

Anyway, just a small caution. We had a member several months ago say their doctor said it was okay to use MJ while under his treatment and then he lost the doctor a little while later. Seems that the docs don't like to be confrontational so they say one thing to your face, and then send a letter dismissing you.

[Oxidize]

Am I the only one who thinks that this is getting "off the rails" a bit?

After all, why is it that you are prescribed pain meds in the first place? To get high? If it is for PAIN, then from an ethical standpoint I don't see how it really makes no difference whether or not you use recreational drugs. A patient needs pain treatment. A doctor prescribes them medication to help deal with pain. It turns out that person smokes a joint sometimes....

.... so you REFUSE to treat them for pain anymore??

Thus far, the only doctors I have read about in anything mainstream that have been charged when a patient overdoses have been charged because the patient overdosed on what the DOCTOR prescribed. Further, the cases I am talking about are cases where one or two doctors were literally writing 20% of the pain prescriptions for an entire region of the US. Really ridiculous stuff.

Despite any paranoia doctors may have, I have yet to see a doctor be held responsible for their patient combining medications, some prescribed some NOT, and then overdosing.

Even if you make the case that a doctor needs to know what drugs you are using so they don't prescribe something that somehow conflicts with what you are already taking, which I think is arguable, I would submit that that information needs to be gleaned from doctor/patient meetings. And a patient's word must be trusted, unless they have already proven untrustworthy (e.g. they already OD'd in the past). After all, what is the point of even bothering to treat someone for pain if you don't trust what they say? Isn't that the basis of the relationship? "Doctor this really hurts."

"Yeah, well, that's what you say buddy, but I need you to take a PAIN TEST first! To PROVE to me you have enough pain!"

Come on. Why treat someone at all, then?

People have been using MJ & opiates forever, and there is no acute or overbearing risk of death or overdose from this combination any more than there would already be with JUST opiates alone. Especially some of the stronger preparations.

This whole thing is sad. It is as if the DEA is pushing all paths toward heroin again. Foolish.

[dingleberry]

Am I the only one who thinks that this is getting "off the rails" a bit?

After all, why is it that you are prescribed pain meds in the first place? To get high? If it is for PAIN, then from an ethical standpoint I don't see how it really makes no difference whether or not you use recreational drugs. A patient needs pain treatment. A doctor prescribes them medication to help deal with pain. It turns out that person smokes a joint sometimes....

.... so you REFUSE to treat them for pain anymore??

Thus far, the only doctors I have read about in anything mainstream that have been charged when a patient overdoses have been charged because the patient overdosed on what the DOCTOR prescribed. Further, the cases I am talking about are cases where one or two doctors were literally writing 20% of the pain prescriptions for an entire region of the US. Really ridiculous stuff.

Despite any paranoia doctors may have, I have yet to see a doctor be held responsible for their patient combining medications, some prescribed some NOT, and then overdosing.

Even if you make the case that a doctor needs to know what drugs you are using so they don't prescribe something that somehow conflicts with what you are already taking, which I think is arguable, I would submit that that information needs to be gleaned from doctor/patient meetings. And a patient's word must be trusted, unless they have already proven untrustworthy (e.g. they already OD'd in the past). After all, what is the point of even bothering to treat someone for pain if you don't trust what they say? Isn't that the basis of the relationship? "Doctor this really hurts."

"Yeah, well, that's what you say buddy, but I need you to take a PAIN TEST first! To PROVE to me you have enough pain!"

Come on. Why treat someone at all, then?

People have been using MJ & opiates forever, and there is no acute or overbearing risk of death or overdose from this combination any more than there would already be with JUST opiates alone. Especially some of the stronger preparations.

This whole thing is sad. It is as if the DEA is pushing all paths toward heroin again. Foolish.

@Oxidize

WOW, really well said oxidize, I agree with everything you just wrote. I agree it is a sad state of affairs we are all living in today both for patients and doctors. And yes, if people can't get the relief they need through pain medication, then they can easily turn to heroin (dangerous) which is cheap and in disturbingly large abundance throughout the US. It is indeed, a disgrace. I loath the DEA for this reason and others.

*This post was auto-merged. The following text was added 7 minutes after the last post:*
@Lynx4
Well I thought I would add a little extra tidbit to the story which I probably should have explained from the start. I am located in AZ, which has passed medical marijuana. My pain doctor has said he is willing to write me a recommendation for it so I can get my certification/ card, not because he cares about me testing positive for thc, but because he thinks it is a smart thing to do from a legal standpoint (to protect me not him he seemed to emphasize?). He definately is not a confrontational guy so I hope what you said is not true that he would ever just drop me out of the blue, he has said he has given people many warnings for Dr. Shopping and the like in the past before he dropped them from the practice for not heeding his warning after he found out about it the first time, so I can only hope that he was not blowing smoke up my ass when he expressed that coming up positive for thc was not something he is concerned about. But in any regard, he is helping me to facilitate getting my medical marijuana card, so after that I suppose it truly wont matter at all being as all is legal and documented in this sense. Funny thing is, marijuana is the only drug that stays in your system so long that it is hard to make preparations to pass a UA test due to how long it lingers in your body. People could easily be taking coke, meth, other opiates, you name it and as long as they stop a few days prior to their appointment they are golden. Drug testing is a crock of $hit in this sense.

[mark129395]

They could always do a hair follicle test and I am pretty sure that can go back months if not more.

[Lynx4]

@dingleberry - I think it's great that your doctor is going to help you get a medical MJ card. That covers your ass and his It is sad that so many patients get kicked out and even worse is the number of people who lose their job over smoking a joint over the weekend. Doesn't matter if they drink themselves into oblivion every weekend, their job is secure. But god forbid they should smoke a joint 2 weeks earlier and get hit with a random tox screen. I can't say I completely agree either way; I understand why doctors are letting patients go because there may some interactions between the meds, but by the same token, MJ isn't addictive and is probably the lesser of two evils between it and alcohol. I've never seen someone smoke a joint and start a fight lol. They are usually too busy laughing to worry about it.

I don't know. I'm often torn on this subject. I don't smoke MJ and haven't in 30 years but I think if I tried to smoke it while on the medicine I take that it would end badly. But for someone who isn't on all the meds I'm on, it may not make any difference in their body if they smoke or not.

I guess it just scares me when I see a member say they popped positive for THC but their doctor is fine with it. Too many people are hearing those words and getting dismissed the next month. I wish the doctors were totally upfront and just tell patients the truth about whether they are going to dismiss them. Since it's a Schedule I drug, a doctor has to worry about his career and his family should the DEA check his files. I guess if they didn't test for THC that would take away the problem, but I haven't seen a drug test yet that didn't test for THC.

It's a moot point for you since your doc is going to help you, but unfortunately most PM docs and clinics are not as laid back. Usually patients have to pick their poison; MJ or pain treatment.

[gazbg]

My pain management doctor just started doing urine analysis
BUT..hes a great guy, talked to him, doesn't care if I test positive for thc (marijuana) which I told him I use occasionally. He said he does not care what I do in my free time. he just wants to know im taking my medication, and not getting opiates from multiple docgtors is all he is really caring about, and he just wants to cover his ass from scrutiny or board reviews for prescribing narcotics. He isnt even concerned or checking for marijuana he said, Although, when looking at the cup I did notice it was checking for THC, Oxy, amoung other things. (I am currently prescribed hydro by him.) I feel lucky I am in a laid back situation, with a kind relaxed doctor, even if he UA's me now I figure its in an inconvieience and a little violation of privacy, embarrassing a bit, etc. but since hes such a nice guy I don't have a problem doing my part to help him cover himself so he can be around for a long time and have piece of mind againt being targeted by the gestapo, ehem, I mean DEA. Sucks this is happening to so many patients now. I recommend being upfront with your doctor and see what they say, many are not so concerned about a positive test for thc or so fourth, depends on the doctor. They really are just trying to cover their ass and many hate the fact they have to do it and are just as embarased and resentful for it as we are.

u think thats embarassing? i have to do my UA with a camera on top of the toilet staring right at my junk every week lol

[dingleberry]

@Lynx4
Yep you nailed it. Also, I read one of the threads you may have been referring to where
the doc says one thing about coming up positive on the screen for thc, then the patient gets dismissed. What a shame. I think pot should be a very, very low priority in terms of possible substances one could be taking when on other meds. Hearing those stories scared me enough to call my clinic, and they assured me they would not ever dismiss me (unless i was breaking the rules out of control, upping doses, dr. shopping, etc.), and they have a three strike policy, plus they said they couldn't dismiss me ever because I bring the best Christmas presents ( I give the Doc and the Rn/ nurse receptionist a nice gift basket on holidays) So I am glad to know I should be covered since they are so kind and relaxed. It would just be so wrong to get a letter dismissing you one day when they give the complete opposite impression to your face. I feel for these people to whom this has happened.

[SpaceMatters]

I guess it just scares me when I see a member say they popped positive for THC but their doctor is fine with it. Too many people are hearing those words and getting dismissed the next month.

Unfortunately, very true. Now it sounds likes this poster is going to be fine, but it's always good to warn other members.

The harsh reality is that most doctors don't want to get in trouble w/LE, and that's a federal agency that does not agree w/the concept of medical mj.

Thank you @dingleberry , for sharing your story. Let's hope other PM docs start doing the same regarding medical mj.

Dingleberry, how did you find your PM? How long have you been with them? I am considering PM, but just not sure.

Sincerely,

Fire

[omega]

I find the idea of a doctor drug screening patients disgusting. Personal freedoms are disappearing in this country. I was a pilot in the military for 9 years and finally left because I didn't want to be employed by our government. I knew many guys who went to Customs or DEA(I was a pilot) but I could not do that as I believe the mission is so misguided it is sickening.
I do believe we have the finest military and military people in the world and am glad I served and glad we still have people serving but think there is massive fiscal waste even in the military. The war on drugs will eventually be looked at as the biggest waste of lives, money, and resources ever. Trying to stop people from doing something they really want to is like trying to stop the a river with a net.
If we spent a third of the money we currently spend on prisons, DEA, local law enforcement, etc on drug education, counseling and rehab we would live in a healthier, richer, and safer country.

[dingleberry]

I find the idea of a doctor drug screening patients disgusting. Personal freedoms are disappearing in this country. I was a pilot in the military for 9 years and finally left because I didn't want to be employed by our government. I knew many guys who went to Customs or DEA(I was a pilot) but I could not do that as I believe the mission is so misguided it is sickening.
I do believe we have the finest military and military people in the world and am glad I served and glad we still have people serving but think there is massive fiscal waste even in the military. The war on drugs will eventually be looked at as the biggest waste of lives, money, and resources ever. Trying to stop people from doing something they really want to is like trying to stop the a river with a net.
If we spent a third of the money we currently spend on prisons, DEA, local law enforcement, etc on drug education, counseling and rehab we would live in a healthier, richer, and safer country.

Agree with you 100% I have been disgusted by the state affairs as you describe for some time. DEA is a bunch of gestapo thugs who are so inept they cant even scratch the surface of the millions of kilos of H coming across our border, so much the prices keep going down and down grams of H are going for less than weed in most cities!!!

[imnotthere]

Agree with you 100% I have been disgusted by the state affairs as you describe for some time. DEA is a bunch of gestapo thugs who are so inept they cant even scratch the surface of the millions of kilos of H coming across our border, so much the prices keep going down and down grams of H are going for less than weed in most cities!!!

What else can these people do to "earn" a living ? The DEA is probably the most useless waste of tax money that this country has ever created. The war on drugs was lost in the twenties. IMO.

[chell55]

I still blame the media somewhat. Every person that was ever addicted to anything goes on t.v. and acts like they know everything and that no one needs narcotics unless they have cancer or at the end of their life. My little tiny news paper has ran a number of stories on doctors that prescribe narcotics. Very few doctors will and if they do, it is for accute pain. They won't touch a chronic pain patient. I drive over 100 miles to get treatment.

Everytime there is someone that ods doctors are targeted. I'm very sick of hearing people like Jane Valez Mitchell, (not sure I spelled it right), talk about her addiction. Heard one famous person say people really didn't need narcotics after surgery. Said they didn't need them after their surgery and didn't understand the big deal.

As you can tell this irritates me.

[alumni]

I still blame the media somewhat. Every person that was ever addicted to anything goes on t.v. and acts like they know everything and that no one needs narcotics unless they have cancer or at the end of their life.
Everytime there is someone that ods doctors are targeted. I'm very sick of hearing people like Jane Valez Mitchell, (not sure I spelled it right), talk about her addiction.
As you can tell this irritates me.

You might find it irritating but anyone who goes public discussing their addiction really is an expert about their personal experience I believe.
Possibly (I hope) the more everyone is aware of the potential downside of prescription drug abuse, the more careful they might be before something dangerous occurs.
Including some doctors unfortunately.

[mistressC]

I guess I am lucky. My PM doctor has not tested my urine. In fact, nothing I signed included any "certification" of not using illegal drugs or my being subjected to random testing. I do MJ, but would quit if I thought it would risk my pain management relationship. Also, I wondered what they can see in these tests specifically: How MUCH/MANY opiates you have had? And when? I remember once being asked in the hospital about "benzos and opiates" in my system. I had been prescribed both, but wondered if they knew how much I had been taking (at the time, I was taking too much... depression from loss of job). Does anyone in the medical field know how specific the results can be?

[alumni]

The answer is they can be very specific if your doctor wants them to be.

[dingleberry]

Mine said he can check for baseline levels of the amount of opiates in my system, I do not believe they can distinguish between codieine and hydro but I would like to know for sure, I know they can differentiate oxy. I need to learn more on how all this works. Hey if your worried about drug tests just start using cocaine it clears out of your system in like two days so if you just stop for a day or so before your PM appointment your golden! The last part was a joke btw, I do not advocate cocaine use in any way, I hate the drug, I am just trying to illustrate the absurdity of the whole drug testing thing as I have seen it drive pot smokers to harder drugs since tests can be more easily passed and their systems more easily flushed with other more harmful substances.