hydrocodone's being made w/o tylenol now

[gotpitbull]

since the latest "lawyer-happy" suits, drug co.'s are now making the HCL form of vicodin now. Oxycodone's been doing it for awhile but there's been a slew of lawsuits claiming the tylenol in the drug is causing liver damage.
What's sad is I'm pretty sure we all know how bad tylenol is and would prefer our meds to be the narcotic only- not until a bunch of ambulance chaser's see $, do the drug co.'s finally do what's safe for the patient's and eliminate- reluctantly- the tylenol. Before, the co's get paid by the maker's of tylenol to include it in med's. Now, they're gonna lose a lot of $ by NOT using tylenol.
Bottom line, drug's are a huge $$ business. Who ends up paying?? The patients! We have no choice and that's wrong!
Just my opinion

[QVC1212]

Are you saying hydrocodone is now being made in its pure form in the United States? That's the first I've heard. Where did you hear that? Years ago I got bootleg versions of it in its pure form, but they were from Costa Rica.

Hydro with acetaminophen is actually a pretty good idea. To the acute pain patient (not the chronic, or the addict) it's a pretty good combo. The two have a synergistic effect to kill pain.

Worrying about drug company profits is a lose-lose idea. No matter what, they are going to make bank, and there ain't a damn thing we can do about it. Ever.

[crucibelle]

I don't think it's approved yet...it's in the final stages, I believe. It's called "Zohydro". There's a bunch of articles that come up when you google the term.

[choo2]

Isn't the liquid form pure hydro? My dad actually has some right now from his stomach surgery, and the label reads only hydro

[Loubitan]

Isn't the liquid form pure hydro? My dad actually has some right now from his stomach surgery, and the label reads only hydro

@choo2 It can't be pure as a syrup, because for it to be a liquid, it has to be compouned with something. @crucibelle - I looked it up, and pure hydro is already avaialbe. It is a schedule II. When it is compounted with Tylenol it is schedule III. I read they compound with Tyloenol for two main reasons: 1.) Tylenol provides an analgesic kicker and B.) Apparently if compouned with Tylenol there is less potential for abuse. It can also be compouned with Ibuprofren, and is sold under the name Vicoprofrin as opposed to (Vicodin, which is the brand name when compounded with Tyleonl. I think pure hydro can be scripted in hospitals, but most pharmacies don't stock it. Some foreign countries have it under different names such as HYDRACA. I found this info on the web, as I was curious on the topic. The pharma company is currently in late stage trials to to market an extended release high doese caleld Zohydro. There is a lot of of web information available.

[crucibelle]

Isn't the liquid form pure hydro? My dad actually has some right now from his stomach surgery, and the label reads only hydro

Could be, @choo2 -- I had no idea there was a liquid form.

@Loubitan -- Thanks for the info. Pure hydro might be technically already approved, however I do not believe any drug company is producing it for sale without tylenol or ibuprofen, etc (in USA).

[smokinjoe]

Past post on this forum discussed this product which is said to be 10x as strong as hydro ,a little search and you will find it.The lawyers were spinning the dangers of it on the boob-tube,not saying a thing about cutting the liver killing nsaid out of it.Their approach was that it will cause more crime to feed the habit. bull

[Loubitan]

Could be, @choo2 -- I had no idea there was a liquid form.

@Loubitan -- Thanks for the info. Pure hydro might be technically already approved, however I do not believe any drug company is producing it for sale without tylenol or ibuprofen, etc (in USA).

@crucibelle -maybe not in the USA, but I believe it is scheduled at schedule II under CSA, so would't that mean it is available in the USA if it is scheduled. I am not sure. Interesting though that oxycodone is available without being compounded, but not Hydro. Maybe the decision makers feel since we have one already (Oxy,); we don't need the other.

[PharmD]

Norco "10mg Hydrocodone/325mg APAP" is a decent compound analgesic; at least for my moderate chronic pain. The new FDA recommended 650mg APAP single dose limit would be cooperated with two or less Norco's.

[Loubitan]

Norco "10mg Hydrocodone/325mg APAP" is a decent compound analgesic; at least for my moderate chronic pain. The new FDA recommended 650mg APAP single dose limit would be cooperated with two or less Norco's.

@PharmD - What do you mean exactly? Norco is what my doctor prescribes me. Are you saying they are lowering the max daily "safe" intake amount of APAP?

[Wabbitt]

Are you saying hydrocodone is now being made in its pure form in the United States? That's the first I've heard. Where did you hear that? Years ago I got bootleg versions of it in its pure form, but they were from Costa Rica.

Hydro with acetaminophen is actually a pretty good idea. To the acute pain patient (not the chronic, or the addict) it's a pretty good combo. The two have a synergistic effect to kill pain.

Worrying about drug company profits is a lose-lose idea. No matter what, they are going to make bank, and there ain't a damn thing we can do about it. Ever.

Although very rare im almost certain hydro was already available in hydro only form. I had some dental work done about 4 years ago my oral surgeon prescribe some 15mg hydro only capsules. Thats only time i ever saw them and have wondered ever since why they werent prescribed more often. I loved them and looked hard for some after i ran out ( only got 10 count) for years but could never find any. It was lke looking for a unicorn. They were little red capsules with no marking on them . The bottle said 15mg hydrocodone HCL or Bitrate i cant remember.

Could be, @choo2 -- I had no idea there was a liquid form.

@Loubitan -- Thanks for the info. Pure hydro might be technically already approved, however I do not believe any drug company is producing it for sale without tylenol or ibuprofen, etc (in USA).

Oxycodone is available in pure liquid as well. its brand name is called OXYDOSE

[crucibelle]

Although very rare im almost certain hydro was already available in hydro only form. I had some dental work done about 4 years ago my oral surgeon prescribe some 15mg hydro only capsules. Thats only time i ever saw them and have wondered ever since why they werent prescribed more often. I loved them and looked hard for some after i ran out ( only got 10 count) for years but could never find any. It was lke looking for a unicorn. They were little red capsules with no marking on them . The bottle said 15mg hydrocodone HCL or Bitrate i cant remember.

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Could be, @choo2 -- I had no idea there was a liquid form.



Oxycodone is available in pure liquid as well. its brand name is called OXYDOSE

@Loubitan said this (below) about hydro and I would assume the same is true for Oxycodone: (??)

It can't be pure as a syrup, because for it to be a liquid, it has to be compouned with something

Edit: Okey dokey, I looked it up and it does appear to be pure Oxy. If there is a pure liquid hydro, what is IT called?

[Wabbitt]

HYDRODOSE

j/k im not sure if they make a pure liquid hydro or not. They do infact make a pure 15mg capsule though. Ive had the pleasure of trying some. They were great!

[crucibelle]

HYDRODOSE

j/k im not sure if they make a pure liquid hydro or not. They do infact make a pure 15mg capsule though. Ive had the pleasure of trying some. They were great!

From what drug store did you get these 15mg Hydros, if you don't mind saying?? Was it a chain drug store like CVS?

[Loubitan]

You know what. Someone could call Wallgreen's or CVS or any pharmacy and talk to the pharmacist, and say you are conducting research and wondering if they sell 15mg non compounded hydro at that specific store or anywhere in the USA.

[PharmD]

@PharmD - What do you mean exactly? Norco is what my doctor prescribes me. Are you saying they are lowering the max daily "safe" intake amount of APAP?

Yes, @Loubitan. FDA advisers voted in June-2011 to lower the following:

APAP Daily Limit: From 4g to lesser amount not yet defined
APAP Single Dosage Limit (4 Hour Period): From 1,000mg to 650mg

FDA Advisers Urge Smaller Doses of Acetaminophen - US News and World Report

Seeing that rare cases of acute liver injury have been linked to amounts lower than 2.5 grams per day, I would suggest capping your daily APAP intake to 2g daily if you wanted to be on the super safe side.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...Sx9kDzR2Hjtiyg

[M77]

There are at least 2 hydrocodone cough syrups out there. One is Hycodan. It has no Tylenol, but it does have a type of Atropine added to prevent abuse. The Atropine will not be noticed if you take it as prescribed....if you take too much, the Atropine will give you an very unpleasant accelerated heart rate. Basically, if you are looking to abuse it, any euphoria would be ruined by the Tachycardia it causes. There is another cough syrup with hydrocodone and phernagen, which I do not believe has tylenol either, but I might be wrong. If anybody wants to look it up, it is called Tussionex.

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Just to add to some of the points on the thread, I am the last person on Earth that would stick up for big pharma companies....but it is not them to blame for the Tylenol. It is the FDA/DEA that manipulates this by either not allowing the pure med to be produced, or changing the scheduling. I assure you that big pharma would love to sell us all codeine, but the FDA steps in, and makes it schedule 2, same as oxycodone, unless they add liver damaging Tylenol. Then it is in the lowest schedules, and was even over the counter in many states. There may be a few state in which it still is OTC, but that is dwindling.

The new hydrocodone with no tylenol that is going through approval is going to be tamper resistant extended release. There are already politicians shooting off their mouths in opposition to it.

[Massiveamounts]

About time they decided to remove that ish from it, and from my understanding the number one reason for adding it is not for scheduling but for abuse reasons......prevents people from being able to snort or shoot the tabs up if Tyl is mixed with it.

I doubt they will ever approve the removal of it for the reasons above.

[M77]

I did not write this, it was from an article I found, but I do agree with it...


snip.....in the US, you cannot prescribe Hydrocodone without it being combined with another drug.

Why Hydrocodone is not available without other drugs such as Acetaminophen is the dark side of this story.

Up until now, the FDA has prohibited Hydrocodone (the opiate in Vicodin), from being sold in the United States *unless* it is combined with another drug as a compound – far and away, Acetaminophen being the most popular (and most dangerous).

The question is why did the government insist that, unlike the more powerful opiate Oxycodone (which is available standalone, as Oxycontin), Hydrocodone not be prescribed by itself?

From my amateur research around the net, the answer seems to be some unusually sinister legislation originating from The War On Drugs.

In some patients, Hydrocodone can be habit-forming, and its a popular drug of abuse. The FDA wanted to make sure there was something else in the drug that people *wouldn’t* want to take too much of to discourage abuse.

Introducing Acetaminophen.

Its been known since 1970′s that too much Acetaminophen causes the unwanted side effects such as stomach upset and liver damage. So the FDA figured if that was in there too, people wouldn’t want to take too much of it.

Basically, for all intents and purposes, the FDA made an important and popular drug more harmful to discourage abuse.

Besides the fact that this was completely unethical and has probably resulted in the unnecessary liver damage and deaths of countless Americans (the vast majority legitimately ill patients to begin with), there is yet one more irony to this approach:

Many Vicodin users and addicts likely have no idea whatsoever that the government put Acetaminophen in there in the first place, nor what the reason and consequences of the Acetaminophen component are.

In other words, instead of being dissuaded from abusing the drug as intended, most Vicodin users were likely just thoughtlessly destroying their liver.

Now, if your a drug addict, I’m sure you know that drug addiction can have serious consequences on your health and perhaps even cause death – the insidious point is that the devastating liver damage they were experiencing was a conscious and deliberate act of the US government, and not intrinsic to their addiction.

Of course, there are some savvy Vicodin addicts who know how (and why) to chemically remove the Acetaminophen before taking Vicodin (and why they should), but the complexity probably makes this a tiny and fortunate minority.

Now, this isn’t to say that up until now Vicodin would not have been a popular compound with doctors anyway even without the government ban (its very effective as a combination) – plus, Hydrocodone is available as a compound with other alternate drugs besides Acetaminophen as well (such as Ibuprofen).

The real problem is all of the people who destroyed their liver who might have otherwise been prescribed Hydrocodone standalone (as Oxycontin is today), and all of the drug addicts who destroyed their liver with Acetaminophen because there is absolutely no standalone Hydrocodone available on the black market.

In a sense, Acetaminophen was used similarly to the way the government used Paraquat on Marijuana farms – stop people abusing drugs by making them poisonous.

[Loubitan]

HYDRODOSE

j/k im not sure if they make a pure liquid hydro or not. They do infact make a pure 15mg capsule though. Ive had the pleasure of trying some. They were great!

I believe Hydro is a crystalline, and if you look on drugs.com, you can see the chemical make up of it. Since it is a crystalline, I believe that would mean that any liquid or syrup formulations would have to be compounded to change the chemical make up of the drug to a liquid form. I am not a mad scientist, but I did take chemistry in college. Drugs.com is a good site for seeing the chemical charting of specific pharmaceuticals.