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Thread: Clonidine(and other opiate potentiators) Potentiation Sources/Info

  1. #1
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    Default Clonidine(and other opiate potentiators) Potentiation Sources/Info

    Hey ive read clonidine is used alot in europe to help potentiate opiates, does anyone have any expirience with it? Or does anyone know where it can be purchased?

    Recently i found out about cyclizine which is an anti histamine i believe and is legal in the US, and used in bonine for kids, and some other similar stuff. Also available somewhere in iv form. Sources for liquid cyclizine?

    Other potentiators? White Grapefruit, What else?
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  2. I haven't tried it , but Inhouse Pharmacy sells it. I've been thinking of trying it because I've heard good things about it. Inhouse Pharmacy is a great source; they don't sell controlled stuff, but great for regular meds and antibiotics. They give free shipping too.

    Catapres 150mcg 100 Tablets/Pack (Clonidine)
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    Much appreciated @Jeanne !!! looks like they are quite a decent site in the forum on them they are highly recommended for the meds they carry.
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  4. #4
    looks like a legit pharm - havent tried it but they've got a decent site put up - this seems to say a lot
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  5. #5
    @LemonDiesel While I have never heard of Clonodine increasing the effects of opiates, I have commonly heard of it being used to help aid in Opiate Withdrawl:

    Studies in animals and humans have demonstrated that clonidine hydrochloride, an alpha-2-noradrenergic agonist, significantly attenuates the opiate withdrawal syndrome. Inpatient and outpatient clinical studies have shown that clonidine is a reasonably safe, specific, and effective agent for detoxifying opiate addicts. Clonidine seems best suited for use as a transitional treatment between opiate dependence and induction onto the opiate antagonist naltrexone. Dosage regimens of clonidine must be individualized according to symptoms and side effects and closely supervised because of varying sensitivity to clonidine's sedative, hypotensive, and withdrawal-suppressing effects. Clonidine is an important new treatment option for selected opiate addicts and may be the treatment of choice when detoxification using methadone is inappropriate, unsuccessful, or unavailable. Lofexidine, a structural analogue of clonidine, may be safer and more effective as an opiate detoxification treatment. It has similar withdrawal-suppressing actions but causes little hypotension and sedation. Although clonidine and lofexidine may be highly effective in helping opiate addicts achieve initial abstinence, a multi-modality aftercare treatment approach including naltrexone and psychotherapy may be necessary to maintain an abstinent state.

    Clonidine, used in low doses as a centrally-acting antihypertensive agent, relieves some of the signs and symptoms of the opiate withdrawal syndrome when used in high doses. Its mechanism of action is suppression of the sympathetic discharge of the locus ceruleus which is stimulated in opiate (and other) withdrawal states. The autonomic signs and symptoms of withdrawal are suppressed; craving, anxiety, bone pain, insomnia, and myalgias are not relieved. Treatment of opiate withdrawal requires high dose regimens, relative to the dosages commonly used in the treatment of hypertension, and these can be complicated by potentially very serious side effects, especially orthostatic hypotension (which can adversely affect underlying cardiac or vascular disease), fatigue, lethargy, and depression. Further, because symptom coverage is not complete, other medications usually need to be added to clonidine detoxification regimens, often in moderate to high doses. Benzodiazepines are added to treat anxiety, insomnia and muscle cramping; NSAIDS for pain; Lomotil for diarrhea; and so on. Each of these medications, in turn, has its own side-effect profile with benzodiazepines also having the potential for abuse and diversion. Because of restrictive regulations regarding the use of opiates in the treatment of opiate dependence, clonidine in combination with symptomatic medication is the most common method of outpatient detoxification despite its higher risk to the patient.


    For me personally, Soma always increased the effect and feeling while taken in combination with opiates.

    The interaction of carisoprodol(SOMA) with opioids, essentially all opioids and other centrally-acting analgesics, but especially those of the codeine-derived subgroup of the semi-synthetic class (codeine, ethylmorphine, dihydrocodeine, hydrocodone, oxycodone, nicocodeine, benzylmorphine, the various acetylated codeine derivatives including acetyldihydrocodeine, dihydroisocodeine, nicodicodeine and others) which allows the use of a smaller dose of the opioid to have a given effect, is useful in general and especially where injury and/or muscle spasm is a large part of the problem. The potentiation effect is also useful in other pain situations and is also especially useful with opioids of the open-chain class such as methadone, levomethadone, ketobemidone, phenadoxone and others.

    Just my 2 cents,

    -WISH

    *This post was auto-merged. The following text was added 57 minutes after the last post:*

    Ill quickly add that you should simply do a google search for clonodine and/with opiates/opiods and you'll find a vast amount of information.

    Thanks,

    -WISH
    Last edited by Wish; 10-27-2011 at 12:39 AM.
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  6. #6
    Just found this. I vouch for none of what the following states as I have never tried any of the following nor a drug in my life. Any feedback on the below?

    A dose of Tagamet an hour before a hydrocodone/oxycodone session will make the drug last longer and have a better effect. Antacids should be taken at least 45 minutes after the Tagamet otherwise absorption of the Tagamet will be impaired. Grapefruit juice also has the same type of impact on liver enzymes; use a Maalox chaser to neutralise any systemic acidification effect from the grapefruit juice. Tagamet should not be taken with codeine because it impairs the metabolism into morphine necessary for it to have any real effect.

    Quinine and quinidine accentuate the buzz of opiates but only directly help with codeine metabolism by boosting the amount changed into morphine. The prescription antihistamine promethazine (Phenergan) helps out codeine even more, and is found with codeine in the Schedule V cough syrup Phenergan VC With Codeine. Quinine will tend to have its effect without impairing hydrocodone but does seem to burn off the buzz more quickly and may flatten the dose-to-response curve.

    With all this liver magic going on and the acetaminophen content of a number of the drugs in question, the concurrent use of any alcohol at all with any of these mixtures should be thoroughly researched ahead of time. For example, washing down 5 Percocets with a vodka gimlet is not a good idea even if you have a massive tolerance to the narcotic. Also in many people moderate to large amounts of alcohol can change the subjective nature of the high for the worse and bring on sleep before the user intends. Anything more than 20 ml pure alcohol equivalent is likely to create trouble.


    Orphenadrine Citrate (Banflex, Norflex, Norgesic) -- This muscle relaxant works by much the same mechanism as scopolamine and the ethanolamine antihistamines and by itself is a mild euphoriant, although this euphoria is mainly appreciated by experienced anticholinergic users. Orphenadrine has many of the same systemic effects as cyclobenzaprine but tends to metabolise more quickly. It can be used, by itself or with a standard dose of a strong antihistamine like diphenhydramine, to enhance the euphoria of both codeine and hydrocodone to equal extents, and it is assumed oxycodone as well. A full dose of orphenadrine should be taken with an 80% dose of narcotic; if available, a half-dose of scopolamine, or 75 mg of diphenhydramine, provides a massive boost to the above mixture. Alcohol in low to moderate amounts does tend to increase the overall euphoria but should be added in small amounts after the full effect of the two or three other drugs is known.

    Cyclobenzaprine (Flexeril) -- This muscle relaxant is generally a rotten medication but does have some impact on opiates and is a crucial ingredient in a late-afternoon snack involving Tylenol With Codeine. The user prepares for the set by taking a 200 mg caffeine tablet and an antacid and then about 30 minutes later taking a naproxen tablet, a effective dose of Tylenol (or aspirin or ibuprofen) with Codeine and the Cyclobenzaprine. If taken on an otherwise empty stomach the feeling of euphoria rapidly overtakes the user.

    Cyclobenzaprine is a tricyclic and the usual interaction warnings apply. Vicodin had been substituted for codeine with less success and it is assumed oxycodone preparations will have a similar effect. Alcohol will cause stomach problems if consumed with this mixture. In general, Cyclobenzaprine has been found to steepen the dose-to-response curve of codeine but have a negligible impact on other opiates, and mixes very poorly with many synthetics such as Darvon.

    Diazepam (Valium) & Other Benzodiazepines -- This drug and other benzodiazepine tranquillisers have the effect of making codeine, oxycodone and especially hydrocodone highs cosier and preventing the insomnia that moderate to high narcotic doses can cause. A full therapeutic dose of the benzodiazepine should be taken with a dose of the narcotic starting at 70% of the usual. Alcohol must not be consumed with benzodiazepine tranquillisers under any circumstances. Not only does alcohol in low doses spoil the positive effects of the drug, but practically all benzodiazepine-related deaths have something to do with alcohol. It is assumed that oxycodone, paregoric, and opium doses should be started even lower if taken with Valium, Xanax, Librium etc.

    Meprobamate (Miltown) -- This sedative-hypnotic can be used to boost codeine pain pills into a much higher level of euphoria, and along with quinine the combination can approach the intensity of morphine. However, Meprobamate spoils a hydrocodone high by making it harsher although the onset is more intense. A usual therapeutic dose of 200-600 mg of Meprobamate combined with 60% of the usual narcotic dose is a good place to start, with booster doses of opiate following no sooner than an hour later. Alcohol of any type should not be combined with these.

    Barbiturates & Other Depressants -- The only research I or others have done with barbiturates has involved the use of low doses of hydrocodone to lift the hangover remaining after the primary effects had worn off. It is assumed that practically nothing in the realm of narcotics, depressants, or anticholinergics can be safely mixed with barbiturates at any dose. Non-barbiturate sedative-hypnotics have lesser but still significant dangers and concomitant dosing should not be attempted unless one has a good deal of experience with the effects of the sedative by itself. A therapeutic dose of methyprylon (Noludar) combined with 60 mg of codeine significantly strengthened both. Another piperidine-derived drug reportedly sold with codeine for concurrent use, glutethemide (Doriden), could not be obtained and is apparently no longer manufactured for US distribution. The depressant ethchlorvynol (Placidyl) is similar in many respects to barbiturates.

    Unconfirmed reports of a half dose of codeine cough syrup taking the rough edge of the recommended hypnotic dose of Chloral Hydrate have circulated, and codeine has the same effect on downer hangover that it does on alcohol hangover.

    Promethazine (Phenergan) Phenergan VC With Codeine Cough Syrup is a pleasant night time substance which can be enhanced with the green-label Alka Seltzer Night-Time Cold Medicine or diphenhydramine. See notes under metabolic enhancers - this drug theoretically will burn off a hydrocodone/oxycodone buzz faster while increasing sedation.

    Trazadone -- Effects are somewhat similar to cyclobenzaprine, both of which cannot be taken if the user has been taking MAO inhibitors in the last two weeks. Trazadone's anticholinergic activity is much less than Cyclobenzaprine and Trazadone has a horrible side effect profile including priapism or impotence and so forth.

    Belladonna Alkaloids - These three alkaloids, scopolamine, hyoscyamine and atropine are used as antispasmodics and anticholinergics and have indirect additive effects on natural and semi-synthetic opiates when taken by mouth. The belladonna-paregoric mixture Donnagel PG has a crazy rushing high to it when taken at 150% of the therapeutic dose. Similar effects have resulted with combining the therapeutic dose with normal doses of codeine and dihydrocodeine.

    Of the alkaloids considered singly, therapeutic doses of scopolamine help out the opiates, hyoscyamine theoretically would have no direct impact, and atropine has variable antagonist activity, and its impact on opiates generally is a wash with the exception of some synthetics, which it directly wipes out. Diphenhydramine is basically synthetic scopolamine, the anti-parkinsonism agent Trihexyphenidyl (Artane) is an atropine equivalent that does not appear to have the opiate-antagonist properties of atropine, and chlorpheniramine has many atropine-like effects (and a very similar dose-to-response curve) with no known opiate-antagonist activity. In all cases starting with the therapeutic dose of both the opiate and the anticholinergic are recommended, with increases in the anticholinergic needing to be capped at double the therapeutic dosage. In contrast to the belladonna alkaloids, the mentioned antihistamines have negligible gastro-intestinal effects, and Artane is closer to the antihistamines than atropine in this regard.

    Diphenhydramine (Benadryl) -- This antihistamine increases the effects of opiates more or less evenly across the board, and the effect seems to be similar for all natural and semi-synthetic opiates. A normal dose of the opiate can be taken with 25 to 75 mg of diphenhydramine. This mixture should be taken with a bronchodialator/decongestant because diphenhydramine is also a cough suppressant. The green label version of Alka Seltzer cold medicine contains a sufficient dose of decongestant and sodium bicarbonate (which slows metabolism). If the diphenhydramine product contains alcohol, the loading dose of the opiate should be reduced by 30% and the any booster doses should be taken no sooner than an hour afterwards.

    Those who take larger doses of antihistamines or other anticholinergics for the euphoriant properties should not take opiates along with them; needless to say, the mixing of opiates with the much higher deliriant doses of anticholinergics can be assumed to invariably have catastrophic effects because of the combination of respiratory depression and thickening of bronchial secretions caused by these drugs. It is assumed that any dose of diphenhydramine above 125 mg cannot be safely mixed with any quantity of opiate.

    Dimenhydrinate -- Basically a pro-drug of diphenhydramine, see that section, doses are a 2:1 ratio.

    Phenyltoloxamine Citrate - This is an antihistamine found in "enhanced pain relievers" available over-the-counter and has effects midway between brompheniramine and orphenadrine. It will make the euphoria of hydrocodone warmer and have a similar impact on codeine and dihydrocodeine. A normal dose of the opiate can be combined with up to 175% of the therapeutic dose of the phenyltoloxamine product (beware of total acetaminophen consumption) to start with.

    Doxylamine Succinate -- This antihistamine is the active ingredient in NyQuil and some over-the-counter sleeping pills. Its sedative effects are similar to diphenhydramine and it has about 65-75% of the anticholinergic strength. It works nicely with codeine and about as well with hydrocodone. A normal dose of the opiate can be combined with a therapeutic dose of the doxylamine product to start out with, unless the doxylamine product contains a large amount of alcohol, in which case the opiate should be divided between a 70% dose initially and the other 30% no less than 30 minutes later with booster doses done at the usual interval but equal to or more than of the usual size.

    Brompheniramine Maleate (Dimetapp) - This antihistamine is a drowsier version of Chlor-Trimeton which adds directly to most of the effects of opiates, with its contribution to codeine being the most significant. More than one person has reported a feeling of exhilaration similar to 150 mg of codeine when taking Dimetapp with 25 mg of hydrocodone. The sedative effect of brompheniramine is about 80% that of diphenhydramine with 75-80% of the anticholinergic potency. At therapeutic doses of brompheniramine the normal dose of the opiate can be taken; with anything above twice that (max should be four times) the initial dose of the opiate should be reduced by 20-35% and booster doses started no sooner than 45 minutes later, and then, at least initially, smaller than usual. Any brompheniramine product being used with opiates which contains alcohol should be taken at no more than 150% of the therapeutic dose with an initial dose of the opiate reduced by 25%.

    Dextromethorphan Hydrobromide - Therapeutic doses of dextromethorphan tend to smooth out a codeine buzz and add calmness to the buzz of hydrocodone, oxycodone, and dihydrocodeine. Anything above this amount may not be a good idea because of the respiratory effects. Dextromethorphan is technically an opioid in the same chemical class as Levo-Dromoran, without a lot of the same effects, of course.

    Meclizine (Dramamine II) - This is effective at reducing the nausea of opiates in a lot of people and at therapeutic doses will cause some across-the-board increase in the effects of opiates (about 35% that of diphenhydramine) and has been demonstrated to steepen or move out the dose-to-response curve of opiates, hydrocodone particularly. The antihistamines cyclizine (Marezine) and tripelennamine (PBZ, Pelamine) also have similar effects. The latter is a strong anticholinergic and was famous for being mixed with pentazocine (Talwin) back in the old days before they started mixing it with Narcan. All of these can be taken in the therapeutic doses along with the normal dose of the opiate.

    Clemastine (Tavist) - This is an antihistamine in the same chemical class as diphenhydramine with a much longer half-life and about 55% of the sedative strength and 30% of the anticholinergic potency. The antihistamine triprolidine (Actifed) is a shorter acting antihistamine of the same type, albeit in another chemical category, that has stronger anticholinergic effects, about 60% those of diphenhydramine. Tavist is better ranked with Allegra and Claritin as being good medicines for pre-empting the itchies, although it has a similar effect to meclizine in compounding the effects of opiates, 35-45% that of diphenhydramine. These can be taken in the therapeutic doses along with the normal dose of the opiate.

    NyQuil (Doxylamine & Dextromethorphan + other items) - See the dextromethorphan and doxylamine sections for details on how these act separately. This mixture is a good potentiator of practically all narcotics and has a particularly pleasing impact on hydrocodone. Because of the alcohol content, a therapeutic dose of NyQuil should be taken with an initial opiate dose reduced by 25% if it is the only item added or 25-45% if a third agent (the best are ONE of the following at one time):
    a.Orphenadrine, therapeutic dose, best with any
    b.Chlorpheniramine, therapeutic dose, best with codeine
    c.Diazepam, no more than 50% of the therapeutic dose with a 5mg maximum, somewhat better with hydrocodone. In this case, the dose of NyQuil should also be cut by 25%, as well as basically halving the initial opiate dose and then taking the other half about 45 minutes later, and no more alcohol consumed in any form.

    Valerian - This is a good agent for dealing with insomnia at the end of an opiate session but really doesn't do much for the opiate. Chamomile tea has similar effects.

    St. John's Wort - This has seemed to help some of the stimulant effects of opiates, codeine in particular, along. The difference varies quite a bit from person to person, and the fact that St. John's Wort is reportedly a soft Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitor should be considered when getting ready to mix things.

    Sljivovica (100 proof plum brandy) - Of the alcoholic beverages, this was the best to mix with opiates, although no more than about > of an ounce should be used by those with no tolerance, and probably not that much more for others. It had an across-the-board impact on codeine but tended to harshen hydrocodone and oxycodone buzzes. In matters other than flavour and aesthetics, vodka is interchangeable with this beverage.

    Gin - The same 15-20 ml pure-alcohol equivalent limit applies for this, and it's negative effects on the hydrocodone and oxycodone buzzes seemed to be somewhat greater than vodka, Sljivovica, and pure reagent-grade ethanol (thus it can be assumed Everclear)

    White Wine: The co-generics present in wine make it an all or nothing thing as far as how well it mixes with opiates. Red wine will generally be worse. For a lot of people it won't be an improvement. The same goes for beer and a lot of whiskey.

    Naproxen (Aleve): This non-steroidal anti-inflammatory will increase the analgesia of all opiates and can add some warmth to a hydrocodone buzz.

    It is very tough on the digestive system when taken on an empty stomach. 24. Multi-Narcotic Mixtures: The natural and semi-synthetic opiates by themselves steepen the dose-to-response curve of other opiates of the same class. Whether this is the most efficient use of them depends on one's supply situation.

    Chlorpheniramine (Chlor-Trimeton) - This antihistamine with about 60% of the anticholinergic strength and less than a quarter of the sedative activity of diphenhydramine markedly increases the exhilaration of codeine. Both are taken at the normal dosages, and mixtures of chlorpheniramine and phenylpropanolamine (Ornade etc) seem to work even better. The mixture can in turn be mixed with a normal dose of orphenadrine for an enhanced body buzz. The effects of chlorpheniramine seem to go on independent of a hydrocodone buzz without much in the way of enhancement, subjective change, or metabolic changes.

    Loperamide (Immodium): This drug is related to meperidine/pethidine (Demerol) but does not cross the blood-brain barrier in sufficient quantities to cause euphoria. However, the consumption of doses of 150-300% of the therapeutic dose when mixed with high doses of codeine or meprobamate have been reported to produce a weak Darvon-like buzz aside from the effects of the other drugs.


    Thought this was worth the read for if nothing more then just entertainment. However a few of the listed seem like a legit "boost" in buzz/effectiveness(Mainly Promethazine AKA Phenergan but perhpas it is just the elimination of nausea/dizziness the phenegran provides which in turn allows you to enjoy more of the beneficial aspects of the opiate with almost none of the negative side affects involved more so then anything. Making it a nice addition but maybe not so much an aid in potency) , But most come across as very elementary & juvenille IMHO. Let me know your thoughts.

    Again I have honestly never tried any of these remedies. My vote for best potentiator can be viewed on post #5 of this thread

    Later,

    -WISH
    Last edited by Wish; 10-29-2011 at 05:54 PM.
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  7. #7
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    Default proglumide did nada, try grapefruit juice instead

    After reading a lot of the scientific lit on its use for this purpose ... going up to about 2006. I decided to give it an honest try.

    At that time the anti-ulcer drug Milid was available made in Pakistan and sold out of ... somewhere like maybe India. I tried name-brand Milid with various opiates and noticed absolutely no effect whatsoever.

    Then someone popped up on DB who was bragging about how she had scored a kilo of the pure chemical from China. After doing some due diligence i obtained 50 grams of the pure chemical from her and verified to my satisfaction from its physical and chemical properties that it was in fact proglumide i continued the experiments, including some attempted double blinds on willing friends who were able to detect its strong distinctive taste.

    Bottom line is that i noticed absolutely no opiate potentiation from proglumide via CCK.

    OTOH, CYP-450 inhibitors, like grapefruit juice, can be VERY EFFECTIVE ... if used properly with the right drugs! The only other one that ever worked was dextromethorphan.

    P.S. The proglumide from China is a very sticky fine white powder. It sticks to everything. Impossible to put into a gel-cap without some left on the outside. It tastes kind of chalky. It won't dissolve in water and floats to the top.
    Last edited by Trampy; 10-30-2011 at 06:27 PM.
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  8. #8
    I think the whole grape fruit story is just a myth. I've drank almost a gallon before dosing and same old feeling nothing out of the ordinary.. Maybe the results vary from person to person? That's what I'm guessing..

  9. #9
    Tramadol,although you gotta be careful with that and tagamet,(Cimetidine).
    Last edited by green82; 11-16-2011 at 08:22 AM.

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    Like above poster said clonidine is sometimes used for opiate withdrawal, they gave me the clonidine patch after I got off subs while I was in rehab. Personally I didn't think it did squat for withdrawal but that's just my opinion. I believe it is a blood pressure Med is that correct? I've never heard that it pottentiates opiates but obviously any cns Med will. I always wondered about the grapefruit warning that's on all my meds so I asked my pharmacist by to be honest I couldn't understand what when was saying.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coheed View Post
    Like above poster said clonidine is sometimes used for opiate withdrawal, they gave me the clonidine patch after I got off subs while I was in rehab. Personally I didn't think it did squat for withdrawal but that's just my opinion. I believe it is a blood pressure Med is that correct? I've never heard that it pottentiates opiates but obviously any cns Med will. I always wondered about the grapefruit warning that's on all my meds so I asked my pharmacist by to be honest I couldn't understand what when was saying.
    I've been given it for blood pressure. Like you it's hasn't help with opiates. Because of how quickly it lowers blood pressure I wouldn't try it as a potentiator-I just wouldn't risk it.
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    Exactly @kallie , with all the things you could take to make opiates stronger why would you want to take a blood pressure med? Why not just stick with Xanax or soma if that's what your into. I must say I don't recommended taking anything with opiates but just saying.

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    Clonidine isn't a potentiator; it helps people who are in opiate withdrawal because your blood pressure can go quite high during that time. It really is just a blood pressure med to help stabilize your blood pressure during withdrawal. One time when my doc changed my pain meds they made me really sick so for a couple of weeks I was given Clonidine, bentyl and ativan to keep me out of withdrawal while they slowly introduced the medicine into my system. Because I had been on large doses of narcotics for a couple of years, they felt it was best to give me those meds to help when I was on a much lower dose of narcotics. Once I was back up to speed with my pain medicine they took me off the other meds. I have to say that being benzo naive I spent the whole time sleeping because 3 mgs of ativan a day was really too high for me.

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    Wow 3mg of ativan for someone without a benzo tolerance is pretty high. In treatment they gave me subs for about a week and a half and clonidine after that. They said it would help with withdrawal symptoms but it didn't, it was in a patch that I wore on my arm for 7 days. The pills were much cheaper but they gave me the patch instead go figure. They wouldn't give me any benzos but they did give me seroquel and trazarone for sleep. Seroquel had a benzo type feel only not as strong, worst part about it though is that it made me gain a ton of weight. But yea clonidine to make an opiate feel stronger is absurd!

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    I know. It was crazy. I would wake up, take my medicines, and go right back to sleep.
    Wake up, take a shower, take my medicine, fall asleep in a chair in the living room. It went on like this for around 2 weeks. I was asleep when my husband went to work and asleep when he came home lol! Now I'm on 2mgs of klonopin a day so I probably wouldn't have that reaction but I had never taken benzos except for the occasional valium for muscle spasms.

  16. All I can say is that Grapefruit Juice must be a myth and if people out there really do feel a potentiating effect with opiates it must be a placebo affect. Trying grapefruit juice really didn't do anything for me except the first time I tried it: my rush was more intense, but I think it was a placebo effect because the time I tried it after, on the same dose of hydros as usual, had no effect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    All I can say is that Grapefruit Juice must be a myth and if people out there really do feel a potentiating effect with opiates it must be a placebo affect. Trying grapefruit juice really didn't do anything for me except the first time I tried it: my rush was more intense, but I think it was a placebo effect because the time I tried it after, on the same dose of hydros as usual, had no effect.
    A lot of grapefruits effects come from naringin which can take anywhere from 24-72 hours for it to inhibit the p450 enzymes, that and the kind of grapefruit you drink makes a big difference too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trampy View Post
    After reading a lot of the scientific lit on its use for this purpose ... going up to about 2006. I decided to give it an honest try.

    At that time the anti-ulcer drug Milid was available made in Pakistan and sold out of ... somewhere like maybe India. I tried name-brand Milid with various opiates and noticed absolutely no effect whatsoever.

    Then someone popped up on DB who was bragging about how she had scored a kilo of the pure chemical from China. After doing some due diligence i obtained 50 grams of the pure chemical from her and verified to my satisfaction from its physical and chemical properties that it was in fact proglumide i continued the experiments, including some attempted double blinds on willing friends who were able to detect its strong distinctive taste.

    Bottom line is that i noticed absolutely no opiate potentiation from proglumide via CCK.

    OTOH, CYP-450 inhibitors, like grapefruit juice, can be VERY EFFECTIVE ... if used properly with the right drugs! The only other one that ever worked was dextromethorphan.

    P.S. The proglumide from China is a very sticky fine white powder. It sticks to everything. Impossible to put into a gel-cap without some left on the outside. It tastes kind of chalky. It won't dissolve in water and floats to the top.
    You got it wrong. Proglumide is VERY useful, not for potentiation, but to avoid tolerance. A one week on, one week off regimen will completely prevent development of tolerance. Please share the source(s) with us if you found it reliable.
    Codein's patient information - "Side effects: ... False sense of well-being."

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    For me, a lot of the potentiators (because they have a noticeable effect themselves) just make the opiate effect different. They augment it with additional "effects". I also always believed grapefruit juice was a myth. I have found that good quinine seems to potentiate without adding it's own effect. There is an expensive tonic water "Q Tonic" that contains high quality Peruvian quinine, uses organic agave rather than fructose as a sweetener and also contains Chinchona bark from Holland. It seemd to work for me with the added bonus that I could always add a shot of Bombay Saphire and twist of lime and have a damn good summer cocktail!
    Helpful Basileuz Rated helpful
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    Be careful what goes into your mouth and what comes out of it. - "Morris Graves"

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    One of the great thing about opiates is the energy they give. Many of the potentiators take that energy away because they are downers by themselves.
    Like brienzi liked this post
    Codein's patient information - "Side effects: ... False sense of well-being."


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