Question about what My doctor said...

[patti24_2000]

I went to my GP and he gave me an rx for my pain med and other things. He asked me if I was still going to the Pain Management dr. I said no, because lost my insurance. He then said that he can check within a "tri-state" area. What does this mean? If I were to get an rx from the other guy and fill it, the GP would find out? Please let me know

[Stevo1]

Yes that is what it means! He can check the PMP (Prescription Monitoring Programs or program) of the Tri-State area to see if you are getting scripts from other Doc's. What is there to understand? Obviously where you live there are PMP's and they are accessible to your Doc. Besides the point that it is considered Doctor shopping or Double dipping and is Illegal. That is if you are getting the same medication or similar meds from multiple Doc's and you don't disclose it to them. Don't do it!

[patti24_2000]

Nice @Stevo1, sorry if I'm not up on all the terminology. Thanks for the information though.

[Stevo1]

Nice @Stevo1, sorry if I'm not up on all the terminology. Thanks for the information though.

Sorry if it came off as Rude it was not my intention. Be careful, you can get yourself into a Lot of trouble if you do what your doc is Insinuating

[patti24_2000]

Sorry if it came off as Rude it was not my intention. Be careful, you can get yourself into a Lot of trouble if you do what your doc is Insinuating

I haven't but I am wondering the following. I have an appointment with the PM guy next week. He is located in the next state over (actually very close to me). I usually just fill my rx down there, since I'm there anyway. Apparently, that state doesn't participate in this monitoring program, that I can see. Will my regular GP still be able to find out? I live in PA and the PM dr is in MD. I apologize for jumping on you.

[Stevo1]

I haven't but I am wondering the following. I have an appointment with the PM guy next week. He is located in the next state over (actually very close to me). I usually just fill my rx down there, since I'm there anyway. Apparently, that state doesn't participate in this monitoring program, that I can see. Will my regular GP still be able to find out? I live in PA and the PM dr is in MD. I apologize for jumping on you.

I don't really know what or if any system is in place there but all controlled substances get reported to the DEA so there is a Good possibility that you will get caught eventually. That and I personally do not approve of trying to do it as it just makes it harder for everyone.... as it makes all legitimate pain patients look like abusers willing to try anything to get extra meds. I go to a hospital pain clinic and I play by the rules...so what you are doing upsets me. Like I said it just makes all pain patients look bad and in the end makes it harder for Pain Doc's to trust us. So please reconsider what you are doing. JMHO

[Jellyfish]

To echo what Stevo has said, if you are found out, and get flagged..that is going to stay with you for a long time.
Your doctor might refuse to deal with you anymore, and you will have a hard time finding another who is willing to treat you.

If you are in the situation where you are getting meds scripted..even if you don't believe it is enough..hang on to it, and don't do anything to risk losing it, as i'm sure others will attest..it is very hard to find an alternative after they flag your records.

You're probably not trying to do anything wrong, but just be aware that this is how they will see it, if things start looking a bit iffy, and you're filling scripts from different areas.
These are the sort of things that they look out for, and even if you're innocent..the onus will be on you to prove it.

[Quaalude]

I went to my GP and he gave me an rx for my pain med and other things. He asked me if I was still going to the Pain Management dr. I said no, because lost my insurance. He then said that he can check within a "tri-state" area. What does this mean? If I were to get an rx from the other guy and fill it, the GP would find out? Please let me know

I believe my biggest fear would be the possibility of losing BOTH my GP AND Pain Management physician if either one found out. I know where I live doctors are strict as all get out when it comes to pain meds and tracking from pharmacy to pharmacy. Personally, I wouldn't want to risk having to start all over with a new doctor if I were caught.

[Stevo1]

To echo what Stevo has said, if you are found out, and get flagged..that is going to stay with you for a long time.
Your doctor might refuse to deal with you anymore, and you will have a hard time finding another who is willing to treat you.

If you are in the situation where you are getting meds scripted..even if you don't believe it is enough..hang on to it, and don't do anything to risk losing it, as i'm sure others will attest..it is very hard to find an alternative after they flag your records.

You're probably not trying to do anything wrong, but just be aware that this is how they will see it, if things start looking a bit iffy, and you're filling scripts from different areas.
These are the sort of things that they look out for, and even if you're innocent..the onus will be on you to prove it.

Besides that there are Legal Issues and the possibility of Jail and a criminal record!

I just googled Doctor shopping and It is Rapidly becoming a Felony in a Lot of States....You really should reconsider what the possible outcome could be.

[patti24_2000]

I don't want any trouble. It's true that my GP does not prescribe near enough for my condition. It is a chronic condition that is very painful. I was just wondering because he has never said anything like that before and I have not been to the PM guy in quite a while, so I doubt that set him off. Maybe he had another patient who made him angry, I don't know. But I thought I would put the question out there. I'm sure I'm not the only one who wondered about this.

[Stevo1]

I don't want any trouble. It's true that my GP does not prescribe near enough for my condition. It is a chronic condition that is very painful. I was just wondering because he has never said anything like that before and I have not been to the PM guy in quite a while, so I doubt that set him off. Maybe he had another patient who made him angry, I don't know. But I thought I would put the question out there. I'm sure I'm not the only one who wondered about this.

You are not the only one ....that is why it is rapidly becoming a felony offense in so many states.

[chera]

I went to my GP and he gave me an rx for my pain med and other things. He asked me if I was still going to the Pain Management dr. I said no, because lost my insurance. He then said that he can check within a "tri-state" area. What does this mean? If I were to get an rx from the other guy and fill it, the GP would find out? Please let me know

Hi there patti,

While in most states this cannot be done, it can be done by doctors in KY, TN, and OH. They normally don't bother with running these reports in all 3 states; usually, just the state in which you're being treated for pain. Just remember though that THEY CAN!!!

If these are not the states in wich you reside, I do have a link to a website that gives specifics regarding each state in America......give me a few minutes to find it and I'll post it for you.

What I'm getting ready to post BELOW regarding this issue Isn't meant for you @patti24_2000 so Iwant to apologize in advance if what I'm getting ready to say comes off that way.....


Whenever people go to multiple surrounding states to obtain prescriptions for pain medications, it usually causes the Pain Management Clinic to decide not to accept patients from other states!!!

Doctor Shopping within surrounding states is EXACTLY what is ruining it for those of us who are only going to 1 doctor (IN OR OUT OF STATE) for our pain management.

I understand that lots of doc's under-prescribe to chronic pain patients...especially in ky and this basically puts them in the position of having to go to another doctor just to receive adequate relief from pain.

Unfortunately though, for the most part, people who MULTI-STATE Doctor Shop do this for reasons OTHER than NOT having their Chronic Pain Adequately Treated!!!

Whenever a pain clinic is kind enough to accept patients from surroundng states, they do so because they know the state the patient is from is not treating their pain sufficiantely. However, they do expect you to NOT go to other physicians for pain meds!

Running these reports for surrounding states is a hassle for them to have to do. Also, they endure much more scrutiny from the DEA by accepting these surrounding state patients.

I know of several STRICT, Legitimate Pain Management Clinics that gladly accepted patients within a 100 mile radius with open arms.

Unfortunately though, they NOW will no longer accept an out of state patient that even literally lives 2.9 miles from their facility due to multi-state doctor shoppers giving the DEA a GREAT excuse to HASSLE the Pain Clinic even more!!! Some were even ultimately closed down largely due to this happening.

Luckily for some of us Chronic Pain Patients, there are still a handful of LEGITIMATE, CERTIFIED Pain Management Centers in surrounding states that are willing to accept us as patients.....I just BEG those out there who "Multi-State Doctor Shop" to PLEASE STOP because for the majority of us who do receive treatment from a doctor in a bordering state, this is our ONLY physician and hope for leading somewhat of a NORMAL life!!!

[patti24_2000]

Hi there patti,

While in most states this cannot be done, it can be done by doctors in KY, TN, and OH. They normally don't bother with running these reports in all 3 states; usually, just the state in which you're being treated for pain. Just remember though that THEY CAN!!!

If these are not the states in wich you reside, I do have a link to a website that gives specifics regarding each state in America......give me a few minutes to find it and I'll post it for you.

What I'm getting ready to post BELOW regarding this issue Isn't meant for you @patti24_2000 so Iwant to apologize in advance if what I'm getting ready to say comes off that way.....


Whenever people go to multiple surrounding states to obtain prescriptions for pain medications, it usually causes the Pain Management Clinic to decide not to accept patients from other states!!!

Doctor Shopping within surrounding states is EXACTLY what is ruining it for those of us who are only going to 1 doctor (IN OR OUT OF STATE) for our pain management.

I understand that lots of doc's under-prescribe to chronic pain patients...especially in ky and this basically puts them in the position of having to go to another doctor just to receive adequate relief from pain.

Unfortunately though, for the most part, people who MULTI-STATE Doctor Shop do this for reasons OTHER than NOT having their Chronic Pain Adequately Treated!!!

Whenever a pain clinic is kind enough to accept patients from surroundng states, they do so because they know the state the patient is from is not treating their pain sufficiantely. However, they do expect you to NOT go to other physicians for pain meds!

Running these reports for surrounding states is a hassle for them to have to do. Also, they endure much more scrutiny from the DEA by accepting these surrounding state patients.

I know of several STRICT, Legitimate Pain Management Clinics that gladly accepted patients within a 100 mile radius with open arms.

Unfortunately though, they NOW will no longer accept an out of state patient that even literally lives 2.9 miles from their facility due to multi-state doctor shoppers giving the DEA a GREAT excuse to HASSLE the Pain Clinic even more!!! Some were even ultimately closed down largely due to this happening.

Luckily for some of us Chronic Pain Patients, there are still a handful of LEGITIMATE, CERTIFIED Pain Management Centers in surrounding states that are willing to accept us as patients.....I just BEG those out there who "Multi-State Doctor Shop" to PLEASE STOP because for the majority of us who do receive treatment from a doctor in a bordering state, this is our ONLY physician and hope for leading somewhat of a NORMAL life!!!

The pain management Dr. was recommended to me by my GP. You see, I live right on the state line between PA & MD. Most people around here have different doctors in each state, depending on what specialty they need, how good the dr. is, etc. I actually have to drive to John's Hopkins for my gastro specialist. I go that far because he is renowned in his field and the local ya-ho's are idiots when it comes to the treatment of pancreatitis. My GP is a nice guy and he is the one who told me the "locals" are idiots. (I had already found this out).

[UGAgal]

I read all the post but I am lost. Why are you going to a PM when you got meds from your GP? I saw you said it was not enough but looks like your GP maybe trying to catch you in something so I would advise against that visit to your PM unless ou tell him what you have been scripted from your GP. If you get red flagged, the trouble you will go through of getting nothing more than tynenol is not worth it! Please think this through. Because your doc making that comment makes me think he is trying to catch you or suspects you are double dipping.

[patti24_2000]

I read all the post but I am lost. Why are you going to a PM when you got meds from your GP? I saw you said it was not enough but looks like your GP maybe trying to catch you in something so I would advise against that visit to your PM unless ou tell him what you have been scripted from your GP. If you get red flagged, the trouble you will go through of getting nothing more than tynenol is not worth it! Please think this through. Because your doc making that comment makes me think he is trying to catch you or suspects you are double dipping.

My GP sent me to this PM doctor about 4 years ago for my arthritis in my hip. About 2 yrs ago this June, I had Acute Pancreatitis that has since become Chronic. My GP does the pain management for this and the PM doctor for the hip. I don't see the PM guy very often because my hip has been the least of my trouble. I had scheduled this appointment before my last attack of pancreatitis so it is still on the books. I hope this clears it up for you.

[UGAgal]

My GP sent me to this PM doctor about 4 years ago for my arthritis in my hip. About 2 yrs ago this June, I had Acute Pancreatitis that has since become Chronic. My GP does the pain management for this and the PM doctor for the hip. I don't see the PM guy very often because my hip has been the least of my trouble. I had scheduled this appointment before my last attack of pancreatitis so it is still on the books. I hope this clears it up for you.

Ahhh ok yes. Just sounded different in your first post.

[alumni]

I'll say this. If your current GP referred you to this pain management physician and is at all suspicious about the possibility of your doctor shopping, all he has to do is call the PM doctor and that's (at least) the end of your treatment by both doctors. Who knows what might ultimately happen to you from a legal standpoint?
Getting similar scripts from two doctors in neighboring states without each knowing is not a smart idea.

[chera]

I haven't but I am wondering the following. I have an appointment with the PM guy next week. He is located in the next state over (actually very close to me). I usually just fill my rx down there, since I'm there anyway. Apparently, that state doesn't participate in this monitoring program, that I can see. Will my regular GP still be able to find out? I live in PA and the PM dr is in MD. I apologize for jumping on you.

@patti24_2000 Ive been off my computer sooo long it's taking a bit for me to find the link to states with prescription monitoring in other states....but I WILL find it, so please bear with me

I just noticed you lived in Pa (sorry, I must've missed it in my 1st read-through) but I don't think they do monitor in other states......although I'm not 100% on this, so I am going to find the site for you.
Maybe your doctor was telling you this to "scare" you from doctor shopping or perhaps your state has recently adopted new legislature.

I don't agree with doc shopping, but I can understand why some chronic pain patients are forced to do it! AND in all honesty, if I weren't being sufficiantly treated for pain at my pain center....I'd be lying if I said that I wouldn't consider it, especially if I knew there was no chance of getting into trouble.
This is EXACTLY why physicians in ALL STATES are going to HAVE to realize that the UNDER-TREATMENT of CHRONIC PAIN is a HUGE PROBLEM in MANY STATES. Moreover, stigma and public opinion created by LE in the media of physicians who DO ADEQUETELY prescribe pain medications being labeld as "Pill Mills" has GOT TO STOP!

I'm sure "pill mills" exist somewhere in the US, but NOT or NEVER have been in the state of KY. The newspaper articles you read about describing the "closing" of a "pill mill" there, is a pain management center in which nothing stronger than hydrocodone OR percocet (maximum 4xdaily) are prescribed to patients with SIGNIFICANT injury or painful progressive disease!!!!!!

There, a prescription monitoring database was the first to ever go into effect. However, it only operated within the state itself, not including others. As of late though, I know they are able to log onto websites for 2 bordering states and search for patients who've obtained pain medication prescriptions there....but unless they have a reason to do so, they rarely do this.

Currently, I do have a pain management doctor who sufficiantly treats my pain. I live exactly 1.2 miles from another state, worked in this state, receive my mail via PO Box in this state, and have ALWAYS "doctored" there, primary care, specialists, using their hospital etc... However, I live in CONSTANT FEAR that something is going to happen to them (being shut down, no longer treat out of state patients, etc...)

Just as in my "legal" home state, most all other physicians, public opinion and gov officials are ALWAYS putting pain facilities under a tremendous amount of scrutiny and looking to find any reason to errradicate them.

If you can believe this, there was recently a "legal motion" to try and BAN any Pain Treatment Facilities from being able to operate anywhere within the entire county!!! Everyone thought this would be the case until about 2 weeks later whenever the newspaper ran a story in which the state capitol found it illegal to try & ban such facilities!!! But now, you can see what kind of community I must live and deal with!!!!

In fact, at my last appointment, I was told by the dr that the dea was now requiring them to write prescriptions for 28 days rather than 30 days. Therefore, the number of pills from each prescription would be reduced to reflect such. (Our prescriptions had always been written for 28 day periods as far as I knew). However, upon picking up my meds from the pharmacy, I noticed my normal 60 count medication was now 58 count (not a pain med). But my pain medication had been reduced by 20 pills....which certainly doesn't add up!!!! Plus, my follow-up appointment was still scheduled to be 30 days away. So, I'll be out of meds before I return now!!!

This new development has got me worried to say the least! It just doesn't make sense to me??? I'm very concerned this is a precursor of something much, much worse to come...........

Any thoughts???? or do you think I'm hopefully just being overly paranoid????

[patti24_2000]

@patti24_2000 Ive been off my computer sooo long it's taking a bit for me to find the link to states with prescription monitoring in other states....but I WILL find it, so please bear with me

I just noticed you lived in Pa (sorry, I must've missed it in my 1st read-through) but I don't think they do monitor in other states......although I'm not 100% on this, so I am going to find the site for you.
Maybe your doctor was telling you this to "scare" you from doctor shopping or perhaps your state has recently adopted new legislature.

I don't agree with doc shopping, but I can understand why some chronic pain patients are forced to do it! AND in all honesty, if I weren't being sufficiantly treated for pain at my pain center....I'd be lying if I said that I wouldn't consider it, especially if I knew there was no chance of getting into trouble.
This is EXACTLY why physicians in ALL STATES are going to HAVE to realize that the UNDER-TREATMENT of CHRONIC PAIN is a HUGE PROBLEM in MANY STATES. Moreover, stigma and public opinion created by LE in the media of physicians who DO ADEQUETELY prescribe pain medications being labeld as "Pill Mills" has GOT TO STOP!

I'm sure "pill mills" exist somewhere in the US, but NOT or NEVER have been in the state of KY. The newspaper articles you read about describing the "closing" of a "pill mill" there, is a pain management center in which nothing stronger than hydrocodone OR percocet (maximum 4xdaily) are prescribed to patients with SIGNIFICANT injury or painful progressive disease!!!!!!

There, a prescription monitoring database was the first to ever go into effect. However, it only operated within the state itself, not including others. As of late though, I know they are able to log onto websites for 2 bordering states and search for patients who've obtained pain medication prescriptions there....but unless they have a reason to do so, they rarely do this.

Currently, I do have a pain management doctor who sufficiantly treats my pain. I live exactly 1.2 miles from another state, worked in this state, receive my mail via PO Box in this state, and have ALWAYS "doctored" there, primary care, specialists, using their hospital etc... However, I live in CONSTANT FEAR that something is going to happen to them (being shut down, no longer treat out of state patients, etc...)

Just as in my "legal" home state, most all other physicians, public opinion and gov officials are ALWAYS putting pain facilities under a tremendous amount of scrutiny and looking to find any reason to errradicate them.

If you can believe this, there was recently a "legal motion" to try and BAN any Pain Treatment Facilities from being able to operate anywhere within the entire county!!! Everyone thought this would be the case until about 2 weeks later whenever the newspaper ran a story in which the state capitol found it illegal to try & ban such facilities!!! But now, you can see what kind of community I must live and deal with!!!!

In fact, at my last appointment, I was told by the dr that the dea was now requiring them to write prescriptions for 28 days rather than 30 days. Therefore, the number of pills from each prescription would be reduced to reflect such. (Our prescriptions had always been written for 28 day periods as far as I knew). However, upon picking up my meds from the pharmacy, I noticed my normal 60 count medication was now 58 count (not a pain med). But my pain medication had been reduced by 20 pills....which certainly doesn't add up!!!! Plus, my follow-up appointment was still scheduled to be 30 days away. So, I'll be out of meds before I return now!!!

This new development has got me worried to say the least! It just doesn't make sense to me??? I'm very concerned this is a precursor of something much, much worse to come...........

Any thoughts???? or do you think I'm hopefully just being overly paranoid????

First let me say thank you for all that you are doing to try to find an answer to my question. Secondly, I am bothered by some of the response I have gotten to this question. It was immediately assumed that I am a "doctor shopper". I am not. I AM, however, an under-treated pain patient who happens to have an appointment for my hip and whose regular doctor made a remark that I hadn't heard before. Therefore, I asked the question. Okay, enough ranting.

Personally, I find it not only ridiculous but insulting that the government, doctors, etc. lump us all into the "addict" category, those of us who suffer pain. We are not all idiots out to get high. I just want to live the happy life I lived 2 years ago before my condition changed everything. I hate telling my granddaughter that I can't play with her because my stomach hurts. I hate to see the worry in my kids & grand kids eyes when they see me wince with pain or have to be hospitalized. So those of you who chose to judge, go ahead! I thought this was the place to ask these kind of questions, without judgement. (no directed at you @chera

[chera]

I can understand where you're coming from @patti24_2000.

This is a pharmacy forum afterall.
I'm sure MOST of the GP's as well as Pain Management Specialists would be none to happy to find out patients were ordering certain meds from online iop's either
Whenever your truly in pain....you'll do almost anything to have it stop.
Getting pain meds from another doctor, if your current doc will not provide you with enough to sustain relief shouldn't raise an eyebrow, especially in light of current chronic pain management policies, and certainly from members of a pharmacy forum

I wouldn't give too much thought to legal troubles resulting from this either. It would be ILLEGAL for a physician to seek out authorities themself and "turn in" any patient for doctor shopping. Even if it were legal, I doubt any would ever do it....It brings far too much negative attention onto them. Also, it is ILLEGAL for a physician to TELL any other physician that you are doctor shopping or to give them or tell them the results of a KASPER or any States Prescription Drug Report. They may drop you as a patient, but that's it. AND if they do drop you as a patient, BIG DEAL....the medical field is extremely competetive right now, there's tons of doctors who'd be thrilled to have you as a patient.
Besides, in the long run they'll have done you a favor. Who really wants a GP who doesn't listen to their problems or treat their symptoms!!!!!