don't go cold turkey !

[ruzzle]

i was on a large dose of xanax a few years back. after a sudden realization that i was addicted, i decided to completely cut it out of my life all of a sudden. it was a really horrible experience, i coulnd't sleep at all for days. i went to the doctor in a desperate state, he didn't even believe how much i'd been on and gave me a low dose prescription for more xanax! i munched the entire prescription all at once just to get a nights sleep. not a good doctor.
anyway took me quite a while to rebalance my mind and body, over a month of suffering. going cold turkey caused much more damage than reducing dose i think.

[Wish]

@ruzzle I strongly discourage against going cold turkey after long term benzo use. It is perhaps one of the roughest and most dangerous class of medications to withdrawl from and in rare cases can even cause death. While you tend to hear a lot more on opiate/opiod withdrawl, Benzo withdrawl is far more risky and hellish when compared.

Long term use of benzodiazepines causes cognitive, neurological and intellectual impairments.

Folks who are physically dependent on short-acting anxiolytic benzodiazepines may experience what is known as interdose withdrawal. Interdose withdrawal are withdrawal symptoms which occur between doses when the previous dose wears off. This can lead to symptoms such as rebound anxiety between doses and craving for the next dose of short-acting benzodiazepine.


Common Side Effects:


Anxiety, possible terror and panic attacks

Agitation and restlessness

Hypochondriasis

Dilated pupils

Impaired concentration

Nightmares

Insomnia

Muscular spasms, cramps or fasciculations

Electric shock sensations

Blurred vision

Dizziness

Dry mouth

Aches and pains

Hearing impairment

Taste and smell disturbances

Chest pain

Flu like symptoms

Impaired memory and concentration

Increased sensitivity to sound

Increased urinary frequency

Numbness and tingling

Hot and cold flushes

Headache

Rebound REM sleep

Stiffness

Fatigue and weakness

Hyperosmia

Restless legs syndrome

Metallic taste

Photophobia

Paranoia

Hypnagogia-hallucinations

Nausea and vomiting

Elevation in blood pressure

Tachycardia

Hypertension

Postural hypotension

Depression (can be severe)

possible suicidal ideation

Tremor

Perspiration

Loss of appetite and weight loss

Dysphoria

Depersonalization

Derealisation (Feelings of unreality)

Obsessive compulsive disorder

Tinnitus

Paraesthesia

Visual disturbances

Mood swings

Indecision

Gastrointestinal problems (Irritable bowel syndrome)


An abrupt or over-rapid discontinuation of benzodiazepines may result in a more serious and very unpleasant withdrawal syndrome that may additionally result in:


Convulsions, which may result in death

Catatonia, which may result in death

Coma

Suicide

Attempted suicide

Suicidal ideation

Self harm

Hyperthermia

Delusions

Homicide ideations

Urges to shout, throw, break things or to harm someone

Violence

Post Traumatic Stress Disorder

Organic brain syndrome

Psychosis

Confusion

Mania

Neuroleptic malignant syndrome like event

Delirium tremens


Some people experience little or no withdrawal when stopping long term benzodiazepine usage. It is not known for sure why there is such a variation between patients but recent research in animals suggests that withdrawal from sedative hypnotic drugs may be influenced by a genetic component.As withdrawal progresses patients often find that their physical and mental health improves with improved mood and improved cognition.

Some of the withdrawal symptoms are identical to the symptoms for which the medication was originally prescribed.

Withdrawal symptoms from low dose dependence typically last 6–12 months and gradually improve over that time period. Symptoms may lack a psychological cause and can fluctuate in intensity with periods of good and bad days until eventual recovery.

Withdrawal symptoms can occur while on a stable dose of benzodiazepines due to the "tolerance withdrawal" phenomenon, where the body experiences "withdrawal effects" and craves increasing doses to feel normal which can lead to dosage escalation, but most often withdrawal symptoms occur during dosage reduction.

The acute benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome generally lasts for about 2 months but clinically significant withdrawal symptoms may persist, although gradually declining, for many months or even several years. The severity and length of the withdrawal syndrome is likely determined by various factors including rate of tapering, length of use of benzodiazepines and dosage size and possibly genetic factors.



I thought this was a really well put explanation on Benzo Recovery as it pertains to brain function or the lack of:

Some brain GABA receptors (which are large proteins) have a number of specific subunits which combine with benzodiazepines. When benzos combine with these subunits (of which there are several different types), GABA activity in the brain is enhanced, resulting in the typical benzo effects (sedative/hypnotic, anxiolytic, muscle relaxant, amnesic, and anti convulsant - each involving different receptor subtypes). Meanwhile, with chronic use of benzos and adaptive (homeostatic) response occurs in which many of the benzo subunits 'down-regulate'. These subunits actually become engulfed within within the neurons so that GABA activity is no longer enchanced, the benzo effects wear off, and the subject becomes tolerant.

When the benzos are stopped after these adaptive changes have occurred the brain is left in a state of GABA-underactivity and therefore in a hyperexcitable state. This accounts for the withdrawal symptoms which are largely the opposite of the original benzo effects (e.g insomnia instead of hypnosis, anxiety instead of anxiolysis, muscle tension instead of relaxation etc).

To restore normality the various subunits which have been down-regulated have to be resynthesised and re-externalised onto the GABA receptor assembly. This is a slow process involving much energy, enzymatic activity and protein synthesis. It takes place over many weeks or months, long after the drugs has left the body. It also occurs at different rates in different parts of the brain and in different subunits mediating different functions - probably accounting for the variable time of emergence, duration and resolution of individual withdrawal symptoms and sometimes the protracted benzo withdrawal. In addition, recovery may require the growth and establishment of new brain synapses as the subject learns drug-free ways to cope with stress.



If anybody is struggling with getting off Benzo's there are numerous support groups out there/online to help, here are just a few:

Benzodiazepine Withdrawal Support
benzowithdrawal.org/
Benzodiazepine Withdrawal Information, Help & Support



Later,

-WISH

[Swizzlestick]

The diazepam (valium) taper is the way to go. First few days take both xanax and valium but each day reduce the xanax and increase the valium based on equivalancy charts (which are estimates at best).

Once on only valium, reduce 5 milligrams off every 7 to 10 days. When you get below 10 mgs of valium per day, it really helps to have 2 mg pills.

Then reduce by 1 milligram per seven to 10 days with the last 5 milligrams going as long as two weeks before reduction. And even then if you need to take a couple milligrams every 3 days... maybe. But at some point the jump must be made. Sticking too it is HARD. The longer you are on them, the longer it will take to recover.

JMHO
~ Swizzle

[Wish]

An individual will feel a lot less of "the hurt" when tapering off Valium as opposed to coming off Xanax. A much gentler and smoother transition is allowed with Diazepam when compared to the much more harsh come down/withdrawls of Alprazolam.

Valium is commonly used to replace short acting drugs like Xanax because Valium lasts much longer. Xanax has a half-life of about 10-15hrs, Valium (and its active metabolites) have a half-life of 100-200hrs.

Later,

-WISH

[Harry Irene]

Weening and Tapering...Never cold-turkey. I (Thank God) have never had a withdrawal from any Benzo's or PK's or addiction to any one drug (I'm no angel, I have abused)

The only awful, awful experience and withdrawal I did have is when I stopped taking "LEXAPRO" that I even weened myself off of...I thought I was going to die (Ghostly Echoes, Brain-Zaps, etc....Awful Drug - IMO!!!!)) and also I noticed I experienced some awful stuff when I was put on steroids for my arthritis...They were absolute heaven feeling-wise for the pain and comfort, but it was a 5 day thing that I had to taper off everyday...the last day and even into a couple days after I stopped taking the medication...Awful times, weird - PLUS - The excruciating pain came right back from the Psoriatic arthritis, Rheumatoid arthritis and Edema ..That helped a lot...Happy-Fun. Careful with that stuff as well.

[rcbucci]

Really good words of advice here! Always wean off. If necessary, supplement with Phenibut, Baocpa and/or melatonin/theanine

[ChillyCat]

...Never cold-turkey. I (Thank God) have never had a withdrawal from any Benzo's

Me neither.

I've been told that seizures are a huge risk in going cold turkry off Xanax

[timeshredder]

The reason everyone gets addicted to benzos is that they are intricately tied to glutamate receptors. There are a few innocuous chemicals that can completely reverse this phenomenon
1. L-theanine an amino found in green tea (glutamate analog that down regulates glutamate receptors
A. Dosage 1500 mg tid for 5 -7 days
B. 500 mg tid for days 8 -21
2. Cannabis! 100 - 500 times more potent as a glutmate antagonist as l-theanine
Sources:
I fold in diazepam using this theory on a rotation...21 days and your brain rebounds to normal using this methodology!

I have links but they won't let me post yet as i am a new member...

[Polain]

Benzodiazepines are potent anticonvulsant. When you cold turkey all your nerves go crazy and fire non stop uncontrollably and you may do damage by cold turkeying which will take months or years to recover from.

[blowingrock]

opps sorry wrong post

[ChillyCat]

Had NO idea this stuff could be that dangerous

Symptoms of Withdrawal From Xanax
Xanax withdrawal symptoms can include but are not limited to:


Seizures [SCARY]


Seizures are often the most dangerous possible withdrawal symptom. These are most likely to occur if Xanax is stopped "cold turkey," but they are also possible if the drug is not stopped slowly enough. Even forgetting a single dose of Xanax can lead to withdrawal symptoms. As your body gets used to the medication, you may even begin to experience withdrawal symptoms between your usual Xanax doses.


CREDIT: Xanax Withdrawal

[onlyareader]

Xanax isn't the only one. I've heard certain painkillers can cause seizures on a Cold turkey too. That's why it scares me whenever I get low on Tramadol and why I'm afraid of escalating my doses.

[lollydoll]

The reason everyone gets addicted to benzos is that they are intricately tied to glutamate receptors. There are a few innocuous chemicals that can completely reverse this phenomenon
1. L-theanine an amino found in green tea (glutamate analog that down regulates glutamate receptors
A. Dosage 1500 mg tid for 5 -7 days
B. 500 mg tid for days 8 -21
2. Cannabis! 100 - 500 times more potent as a glutmate antagonist as l-theanine
Sources:
I fold in diazepam using this theory on a rotation...21 days and your brain rebounds to normal using this methodology!

I have links but they won't let me post yet as i am a new member...

I am particularly interested in your protocol ;-) and would definitely like to know more. But please don't limit sharing because you don't yet have enough posts. I think it took very few when I first started to acquire the ability to add links. Maybe as few as 3, I don't recall. Anyway, I'd like to quote @Wish here who said the following,

"Some brain GABA receptors (which are large proteins) have a number of specific subunits which combine with benzodiazepines. When benzos combine with these subunits (of which there are several different types), GABA activity in the brain is enhanced, resulting in the typical benzo effects (sedative/hypnotic, anxiolytic, muscle relaxant, amnesic, and anti convulsant - each involving different receptor subtypes). Meanwhile, with chronic use of benzos and adaptive (homeostatic) response occurs in which many of the benzo subunits 'down-regulate'. These subunits actually become engulfed within the neurons so that GABA activity is no longer enchanced, the benzo effects wear off, and the subject becomes tolerant." (see Wish's most helpful rated post below)

I'm no biochemist but to me it seems like your protocol with L-theanine, a glutamate analog that down regulates glutamate receptors would cause benzo withdrawal????

If timeshredder & Wish could chime in I'd love some clarification


Last ? I promise- I'm not into pot (or anything) recreational/illegal in my state and wouldn't EVER use it or any form of it. So if ur protocol was worth doing, what could be substituted in its place for the desired effects? I am a nurse and give urinalysis at my dr appts for my scripts. no way on earth am I messing that up with marijuana ;-) not to mention my precious few brain cells left lol

[MusiciansMallet]

Xanax isn't the only one. I've heard certain painkillers can cause seizures on a Cold turkey too. That's why it scares me whenever I get low on Tramadol and why I'm afraid of escalating my doses.

Seizures do not occur during cold turkey withdrawal from opiates/opioids- unless: 1. there is a predisposed condition w/ the user; 2. he or she concurrently uses benzodiazepines when they "stop" everything (common w/ recreational users; & they usually consider the opioid the most pressing issue w/o any thought to the benzodiazepine they use concurrently with it); and 3. if one is on high doses of certain opioids that have NMDA-antagonist effects (irrelevant at low-to-moderate doses due to its low potency at these receptors). The latter of which, methadone is the most commonly known opioid w/ NMDA-antagonism effects. Antagonizing NMDA receptors suppresses glutamate release (actually, the NMDA receptor is on a glutamate receptor complex). & glutamate, which if over released (i.e., during cold turkey withdrawal) may certainly cause seizures & convulsions. Indeed, most anticonvulsants (stronger than benzodiazepine-classed drugs) antagonize NMDA & suppress glutamate!

Tramadol is an atypical opioid; w/ a nearly unique molecular skeleton (which is how these drugs are classified, based on their molecular skeleton, sometimes combined w/ receptor affinity: i.e., "barbiturate"; "opioid vs. opiate"; "benzodiazepines vs. Z-drugs/nonbenzodiazepines"). Actually, to the contrary- tramadol may cause seizures DURING use of it (so be careful!); it has SNRI action & mediates a lot of other serotonergic systems! I am not aware of any risk of seizure during tramadol withdrawal, myself. Although, I AM aware of withdrawal symptoms of typical opioid/opiate withdrawal AND antidepressant withdrawal symptoms. I think the stuff is trash, personally.

[fapjack]

I've had to kick xanax and methadone at the same time and they are both extremely painful. I didn't sleep for like 10 days because I was forced to do it cold turkey. I was having delusions, hallucinations, and it was extremely unpleasant. My skin was crawling, i was too hot/cold, weak, couldn't eat anything so I was hungry but if I ate I threw everything up. It was probably the worst 10 days in my life and the withdrawl was so much worse than just kicking oxycodone/morphine. I'd suggest doing a slow taper if you can.

[Wish]

@lollydoll ,

L-Theanine is an amino acid naturally found in green tea which helps to promote relaxation without the drowsiness or negative side effects. L-Theanine also supports healthy cardiovascular function with relaxing effect's attached. It "quiets the mind" somewhat and plays a role in inducing the calm feeling of well-being without drowsiness. It is a non-toxic, highly desirable mood modulator for some. L-Theanine does not present problems with benzo WD, because it does not introduce more serotonin into your body like an SSRI for example. Good stuff essentially, producing both dopamine & norepinephrine.

Theanine competes with glutamate receptors to mitigate the neuroexcitatory effects. In an elegant balancing mechanism, the brain balances glutamate (excitatory) which is made into the generally inhibitory GABA. The theanine in green tea may be one reason that the also present caffeine does not seem to stimulate tea drinkers as
much.)

It's pretty close structurally as related to the neurotransmitter glutamate, theanine only has weak affinity for the glutamate receptor on postsynaptic cells(Such a nerd). Rather, its primary effect seems to increase the overall level of the brain inhibitory transmitter GABA. This may not be as important to the given situation but theanine also increases brain dopamine levels and has a low affinity for AMPA, kainate and NMDA receptors. Its effect on serotonin is still a matter of debate, and IMHO is still not 100% known but the "scientific community" has many studies showing increases and decreases in brain serotonin levels using similar experimental protocols and tests.


Remember that GABA doesn't pass the blood-brain barrier in appreciable amounts. Also even if it got to the brain, there is no reason to believe that it will find the receptors and then go to the place where it will have an effect. The whole issue is that GABA must be synthesized at the receptor site. There also is the idea that GABA is there but not in the right place. Actual recovery may mean both increased GABA synthesis and remaking lost receptors. This may be why recovery takes so long. Theanine has been reported to induce the release of gamma-amino butyric acid (GABA), the main inhibitory neurotransmitter known for counterbalancing the stimulatory effects of glutamate. Just as glutamate excites nerve cells into greater activity, GABA (which is produced in the brain from glutamate) quiets them down. Unfortunately, it’s difficult to supplement with GABA because it doesn’t cross the blood-brain barrier readily. Theanine, on the other hand, crosses the blood-brain barrier with relative ease. This makes theanine rather than GABA itself the supplement of choice for relieving anxiety and stress

GABA is so key to sleep that it’s the target of ALL the familiar sleep medications – zolpidem (Ambien), eszopiclone (Lunesta), benzodiazepines (Valium, Xanax, Ativan), barbiturates, alcohol and others. All of these work by amping up the “off” signal sent by GABA. The GABA signal is so powerful that if turned on and left on – say, in barbiturate overdose – you get not just sleep, but coma and death.

Here is a nice article on a Theanine/Alprazolam comparison study:

L-Theanine (delta-glutamylethylamide) is one of the predominant amino acids ordinarily found in green tea, and historically has been used as a relaxing agent. The current study examined the acute effects of L-theanine in comparison with a standard benzodiazepine anxiolytic, alprazolam and placebo on behavioural measures of anxiety in healthy human subjects using the model of anticipatory anxiety (AA). Sixteen healthy volunteers received alprazolam (1 mg), L-theanine (200 mg) or placebo in a double-blind placebo-controlled repeated measures design. The acute effects of alprazolam and L-theanine were assessed under a relaxed and experimentally induced anxiety condition. Subjective self-reports of anxiety including BAI, VAMS, STAI state anxiety, were obtained during both task conditions at pre- and post-drug administrations. The results showed some evidence for relaxing effects of L-theanine during the baseline condition on the tranquil-troubled subscale of the VAMS. Alprazolam did not exert any anxiolytic effects in comparison with the placebo on any of the measures during the relaxed state. Neither L-theanine nor alprazalam had any significant anxiolytic effects during the experimentally induced anxiety state. The findings suggest that while L-theanine may have some relaxing effects under resting conditions, neither L-theanine not alprazolam demonstrate any acute anxiolytic effects under conditions of increased anxiety in the AA model.

(I thought that was an interesting piece on the relation between OTC remedy & prescription benzo)


Anyways, so it's well know that glutamate influences normal adaptive behaviors, or everyday living skills like walking, talking, getting dressed, going to school, driving to work, baking a meal, etc. Behaviors are skills a person learns in the process of adapting to his/her surroundings. A person’s behavior, good or bad, is determined by these interactions which is why and how drugs/benzo's have such profound effects on the person going through WD. Unfortunately, drugs significantly change a person’s perception of risk,reward, and social acceptance. In addiction, excess signaling of glutamate neurons in the prefrontal cortex stimulate and then trigger drug seeking behaviors at the expense of naturally rewarding or good behaviors.

Glutamate helps restore the brain/Gaba chemicals with a "mild enhancementfuel source" and helps aid in the amino acid deficiency thats presented as a result of the prior Benzo regimen. It's also widely contributed to acting as an anti-craving, anti-stress and promotes the leveling of blood sugar and mood.

The benzodiazepines, such as Valium, Ativan, and Xanax work by stimulating the GABA receptors, thus mimicking the calming effects of GABA in the brain. Glutamate accelerates brain activity—it is excitatory. GABA, on the other hand, puts the brakes on brain activity—it is inhibitory. Together, they keep the brain humming along at just the right pace—not too fast, not too slow.

The balancing supplements for glutamate and GABA include amino acids with one of the many being L-Theanine.


Here is a most helpful article that explains much better then I can:

Think of glutamic acid (GA), glutamine (GAM) and gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) as three members of a close-knit family with three very different personalities. Glutamic acid is a non-essential amino acid (the body can manufacture it when things are working right) that's also an excitatory neurotransmitter.1

Its cousin GABA has an opposite personality - it calms our nerves and relaxes us. Glutamine is the source for both of them - the body can make either glutamic acid or GABA from glutamine. This is a special family ... the members can change into each other from time to time.

GABA and glutamine are both available over the counter in health food stores. Glutamine is usually found labeled "l-glutamine". (The "l-" stands for the direction the molecule "turns". All amino acids are either "d-" or "l-", but the body only accepts and works with molecules spun in the "l-" direction.)

In conventional medical circles it's thought that GABA will not pass through the blood-brain barrier, and so taking it orally shouldn't have much effect on mood. Nevertheless, many people report that taking GABA has an anti-anxiety action, and at least one study provides evidence that it does.2 This could be the power of suggestion ... ie: a placebo effect ... but it's also the case that due to malnutrition or inflammation the blood-brain barrier can weaken. A blood-brain barrier that's not fully functional can contribute to anxiety and depression, so it's possible that there is a physiological basis for reports of oral GABA's calming action.

Alternatively, one can take the amino acid theanine instead. Theanine is converted to several useful calming and mood-elevating substances in the brain, including GABA.3,4 So one can use theanine as a kind of "bank shot" to get around the blood brain barrier issue with respect to GABA.

Glutamic acid is the second most abundant amino acid in the brain.5 It's particularly abundant in the part of the brain where memory lives, the hippocampus. Glutamine (GAM) is critical to DNA synthesis. Glutamate, a salt made from glutamic acid, is the most common neurotransmitter in the body, found literally everywhere but especially in the brain.

GABA is the most abundant calming (inhibiting) neurotransmitter in the body. It's also found throughout the brain and many internal organs. Valium and other benzodiazepines mimic GABA's action in the central nervous system (CNS.) Again,formed by enzymatic action from glutamic acid,6,7 GABA is a specific for anxiety.8-11 The body makes sleep-inducing gamma-hydroxybutyrate (GHB) from GABA.12

So glutamate and GABA play opposite roles in the CNS - glutamate wakes us up, GABA calms us down. Too much glutamate can destroy nerve cells through overstimulation (this is the reason some argue against the use of MSG-monosodium glutamate.) GABA, its gentle twin, exerts its effects by calming overactive hypothalami and amygdalae. This lifts depression and soothes jangled nerves.

Glutamine is a principal source of energy for the whole body but especially the brain. There's three times more glutamine than any other amino acid in blood and it's 10-15 times more concentrated in cerebrospinal fluid than it is in blood.

Glial cells surround neurons in the brain. They drink in glutamate and GABA and secrete glutamine, which seeps out into the neurons and resupplies them with glutamate and GABA; these only to be absorbed again by the glial cells once their working day as neurotransmitters is over and recycled back into glutamine.13

As we get older it gets harder and harder for the brain to form the enzyme necessary to make GABA from glutamic acid; manganese can correct this.14-16 Supplementation with GABA and glutamine has also been shown to raise intelligence.17,18 GABA modulates aggression.19 GABA's also been used to treat schizophrenia.

Overstimulation of specific brain regions has been connected to predictable psychological syndromes ranging from cognitive inflexibility as well as anxiety and depression. Imbalances of GA/GAM/GABA metabolism can easily contribute to this excessive stimulation given glutamic acid and GABA's complementary roles. Usually seizure disorders are characterized by low GABA levels. Oral GABA inhibits seizures20 and tremors. Some studies show that excesses of glutamic acid are associated with seizures21 but since MSG breaks down into glutamic acid in the body there are a number of contradictory studies.

GABA receptors are easily damaged by free radicals.22 Autistics have reduced numbers of these receptors.23,24

Seizures and autism represent the extreme end of nervous system over-stimulation. What Amen's studies and those of other imaging investigators suggest is that levels of overexcitation not extreme enough to result in seizures or completely disabling neuropathology still characterize many psychiatric conditions. Higher levels of glutamate in the brain increase excitotoxicity especially if there's any problem with energy metabolism.25

Hibernating animals have high levels of GABA in their brains. Depressed patients can show disrupted GABA metabolism.26 Insulin pushes sugar out of the bloodstream and into cells where it's either burned for energy, stored or becomes destructive. Cells sometimes reach a point where they no longer accept sugar so easily; this is called insulin resistance. Diabetic blood sugar levels are lowered by GABA, decreasing insulin resistance.

When the body (or brain) resists insulin's action the body has to pump out extra to get the same reduction of blood sugar levels. If the kidneys and liver have any trouble clearing this extra insulin promptly it can increase appetite. It appears that by lowering the body's need for insulin GABA can reduce appetite in some people.

Excessive GABA levels appear to contribute to migraine, cerebrovascular disease and other brain diseases.27 GABA breakdown byproducts inhibit sperm action; GABA may have application as a male contraceptive.28 Large doses of GABA are probably not a good idea. Doses in excess of 1,000 mg may be dangerous because they'd be too sedating.29

Thiamin (B1) deficiency results in a loss of thiamin-containing nerve endings, changing the balance of neurotransmitters in the brain including GABA.30-32 Manganese is also essential to the synthesis of glutamine. Glutamine, in turn, is essential for the synthesis of niacin (B3.) GABA is involved in glucose metabolism36 as well as that of vitamin C.33,34 Lysine enhances GABA's action in the brain, while aspartate inhibits glutamic acid. A number of food additives inhibit GABA receptors, while many perfumes enhance their responsiveness.35 Taurine, another amino acid, helps break glutamate down to GABA, and it too seems to act as a CNS sedative.

Glutamic acid is common in food, but glutamine and GABA are nonexistent there. Wheat gluten is close to half glutamic acid. A quarter of the most common protein in milk is glutamic acid.

Some studies suggest that taking GABA by mouth may not raise brain GABA levels much.36,37 But oral GABA does have some sympatholytic activity because it can lower blood pressure.38,39 And in one study of GABA and pyridoxine, fully half of 699 epileptics taking it showed improvement.40 It's been my experience that oral GABA is often, but not always effective at calming anxiety and lifting depression.

When GABA doesn't work I'll often turn to theanine, instead. Theanine is found in abundance in green tea.

Librium, a pharmaceutical that raises GABA, helps alcoholics go straight. This might explain the long history of l-glutamine as helpful for people who want to let go of their addictions to alcohol and sugar.

The liver and kidney break glutamate down. It's not wise to supplement with glutamic acid or l-glutamine when those organs may be compromised by medical conditions or other medications. In any event l-glutamine is absorbed much better than glutamic acid. GABA won't be problematic in this situation, and may even be helpful.


And yet another have at the topic in discussion:

Glutamate is an acidic amino acid, therefore taking L-glutamate will not cross the blood brain barrier, due to the fact that glutamate is synthesized in the brain and removed from the brain by this transport mechanism. That is why it has been judged that MSG is not actually neurotoxic to the brain. MSG which is monosodiumglutamate cannot cross the blood brain barrier. The experiments done in the past were done with excessive amounts of glutamate, and therefore if you saturate the brain in MSG, of course the blood brain barrier will become porous and let it through causing neurotoxicity. The reactions people have to MSG are reactions with the back of one's palate. One can compare it to brain freeze when you eat ice cream too fast. One would never argue that the ice cream crosses the blood brain barrier causing a headache--it is the action on the back of the palate that causes the pain.

However, there are 4 transport proteins that just use facillitated diffusion: Basic Amino acid transport protein, Adenine transport protein , Adenosine transport protein, vitamins (they probably have a few transport proteins), and the neutral amino acid protein.

There shouldn't be a problem with taking both L-Glutamine and GABA. GABA is a non essential amino acid...even though someone ****ed up the naming mechanism... It is also a neutral amino acid. However, L-threonine, tyrosine, and tryptophan are also neutral amino acids. The neutral amino acid transport protein depends on the relative concentration gradient of the different amino acids. Therefore, by increasing the relative concentration of GABA and L-threonine, you will decrease the amount of tryptophan and tyrosine in the brain. The amount of tryptophan directly affects the amount of seritonin in the brain, and the amount of tyrosine in the brain, effects the amount of dopamine in the brain when the dopamageneric neurons are firing. This is because the hydroxylases are low affinity enzymes and are therefore dependent on the amount of substrate in the system. However, tyrosine hydroxylase has an increased affinity when phosphorlyated, which occurs when dopamageneric neurons are firing. Therefore, these supplements could cause a reduction in seritonin or dopamine in the brain, which could end up causing problems.

The B vitamins are cofactors for many of the enzymes involved in creating neurotransmitters...and other cofactors... For those who have taken biochemistry, B6 is also known as pyridoxal-P. They are important for the synthesis of many neurotransmitters....and other molecules in the body..., including and not limited to: dopamine, seritonin, and GABA. They are also important for the inactivation of those compounds, which is just as important. I could go into all the mechanisms, but I don't feel as if they are needed for this response. B vitamins have a completely different transport mechanism across the blood brain barrier, and therefore do not interfere with the transport of amino acids. So the blood brain barrier and B vitamins aren't the problem.

So in summary...

L-glutamate is useless to use as a neuro-supplement. It doesn't even cross the blood brain barrier as glutamate is made in the brain and transported out. GABA and Threonine will cross the blood brain barrier, but they could interfere with seritonin and dopamine synthesis, which is bad, so my advice is to not take them. (The long term effects of these compounds have not been studied). B vitamins are good for you. They are highly recommended and probably the only thing in this post that is worth taking. In fact, I take a B-12 shot every month which makes me feel so much better.


I hope this is helps,

-WISH

[Allycat]

My goodness @Wish, you always have the most informative, educational posts. I always learn some thing. Thanks.

[wootwoot]

I am now rethinking taking xanax...to the original OP, out of curiosity how much xanax were you taking per day before you decided to detox? I've always known the stuff was very addictive, and I say I take about 1mg per day on average. I ONLY take it to fall asleep, not to function. Sounds like I better look into trying something else to sleep.

[Wish]

@fapjack While perhaps not the most eloquently spoken post I think the meat and potatoes are there. Suddenly stopping or ceasing benzo use can wreak havoc on an individual and potentially place them in severe danger.

@wootwoot Sounds like you've made a wise choice. Any update on your progress or recent decisions regarding use? I hope all is well and look forward to hearing from you soon.

-WISH

[cmkronen]

wy wife heard a loud thump. yes that e=was me falling on the floor and having a xanex seizure. the withdrawl was nthing but i was used to opiote detox. but it is ery dangerous. i have no recolection of the exact moment before and after. it took 1/2 hour for me to realize what was goin on.

NEVER cold turkey with xanax. even possible with vallim.