Watch out--western union

[snowangel308]

Yesterday, someone hacked into my western union online account and depleted our account by making 21 trasactions and they are all already picked up. We called our bank and now have to call the police department and get a case number but it looks like they will put our funds back if we sign some papers.

I was so upset last night...they took EVERYTHING. What I dont get is how WU allowed this person to do this----isn't the limit supposed to be 1000 in two weeks? THey took at least 5000 dollars! I am beside myself...my paycheck went in thismorning and now I have still have a negative account due to the fraudulent charges.

Along with all this, is the fact that I will get sick if I dont order something soon and how am I supposed to do that with no money and I am not sure when they are going to give it back? I feel like I am going to throw up...

[kineticode]

How do you get money back that was stolen as cash,and not a credit card?They are going to find out that you have been buying drugs through the mail,and the fines will be more than 5 grand!I guess I better send you some valiums,because you will need them.This is a serious entrapment issue that could be set up by the FEDS.Start cleaning house,and cover all your tracks.Your computer harddrive will have evidence of every order,and I would stash it somewhere for a while.Do not freak!Be calm and THINK.

[Jeremy Fisher]

Was your WU account set up w/a credit card, or a bank? I didn't even know linking your bank account(s) to a WU account was allowed.

Signing papers at the cops req'd to get $ back? i don't know maybe @kineticode is right. Something does not smell right here. I assume you closed your WU account.

Can't you borrow some cash, using those credit card checks so often mailed to users of the cards. I would not go near the cops.

This is fraud, and that is usually covered w/out police involvement, unless it is the $ amount of the fraud that triggers police involvement.

I would cancel and change EVERYTHING and then move very slowly, making sure you understand the whats and the whys.

If you have some meds left, I would start a taper and borrow from a friend if need be to help w/that. Gotta be smart about this.

Let us know how it all shakes out.

Crooks bite, big time.

Sincerely,

Fire

[Peaches]

Wow, I just can't understand how that could happen.
Every time I do any online transactions, I get emails from WU, didn't they send any emails to you about all these transactions? If not, then they didn't do their job, who knows, maybe it was one of their employees.
I guess if someone hacked into your computer, then they could have changed your email, but then you will probably have problems with all your other online accounts, so watch out for all them also.
My best wishes for you, I really hope it stops there!

[ereviewer]

Sorry to hear the bad news. Sounds like a real friggin bummer! Don't do anything in haste. Take your time and really THINK things through on this. Hope all turns out well.

[Skeletal_Wings]

@snowangel308 Oh my, I'm so sorry! What a horrible situation! I'm sure your money will be returned to you, though, & that things will in fact work out in the end. I suspect that things like this happen much more frequently than you realize... Usually it happens when people fall for an elaborate email scam (that is, they receive an email that appears to be from Western Union asking for the password to their account). (Also, you should probably think long & hard about whether or not there's any way at all that anybody else could have found out your WU account info.)
The best way to get yourself some substantial, at least largely reliable answers & information about your unfortunate situation ASAP is probably to try contacting WU directly (I'm sure that there's a phone number available on their website that you can call, there might even be information that would be helpful to you right now on their website) & inquiring about what generally happens in these sorts of situations. If they try & give you vague & indecisive answers to many of your questions (for example, "well, in every case the amount of time it takes for the stolen money to be returned is different"), try your best to not let them get away with it by responding with answers such as "I know that every case is different & that you can't tell me exactly how much time it will take, but I need you to provide me with some sort of rough estimate at least".

@kineticode I think you're being a bit paranoid. Can you substantiate your claims/suspicions with more actual facts & solid logic?

[pcguyusa]

Yesterday, someone hacked into my western union online account and depleted our account by making 21 trasactions and they are all already picked up. We called our bank and now have to call the police department and get a case number but it looks like they will put our funds back if we sign some papers.

I was so upset last night...they took EVERYTHING. What I dont get is how WU allowed this person to do this----isn't the limit supposed to be 1000 in two weeks? THey took at least 5000 dollars! I am beside myself...my paycheck went in thismorning and now I have still have a negative account due to the fraudulent charges.

Along with all this, is the fact that I will get sick if I dont order something soon and how am I supposed to do that with no money and I am not sure when they are going to give it back? I feel like I am going to throw up...

That sounds like a social hack. I've been in IT for 23 years and I sometimes cannot log into WU. Have the financial institutions in question ask WU for the IP address of the computer that made the transactions. Even if it was from a public terminal you would know what city and if it was not a pro hacker(not likely) then they would not have bounced the connection off of a couple of anonymous proxy servers. Nobody can hide on the net unless they are really good.

Someone that knows you did this or your username is name@mail.com and your password is password. I'd bet a pocketful of ritalin that the perp computer is in your city and they know you well and have your e-mail address.

[LilOne1989]

IMO- PROBABLY NOT A SETUP

Often times a police report is needed to protect THEM from fraud, the company needs to make sure your fraud claim is Legit, and therefore needs something to be at stake for you besides your word, by filing a police report something is at stake for you (your freedom from prosecution for filing a fake police report) also insurance companies that generally behind the scenes cover fraud losses want to see a legal doc (police report) to make sure they are paying legit claims...

[kineticode]

Someone getting away with such a big hit unnoticed,has to be connected to the source of distribution.She said money will be returned if she signs some papers.What kind of papers?Sounds like a trick to bring in the victim for questioning,because this has to be an inside job.If they did not sound so assuring about returning the money,then I would not be suspicious.

[LilOne1989]

Someone getting away with such a big hit unnoticed,has to be connected to the source of distribution.She said money will be returned if she signs some papers.What kind of papers?Sounds like a trick to bring in the victim for questioning,because this has to be an inside job.If they did not sound so assuring about returning the money,then I would not be suspicious.

I am generally a pretty paranoid person, and I just don't see this... I agree that it is good to cover your ass in case questions do turn from information gathering toward interrogation; however in a typical credit-card chargeback or fraud situation the "papers" that need to be signed are affidavids attesting to the fact that you yourself are not the perpetrator of the fraud- pretty standard stuff

Oh and my mom had CASH taken (over 10K) by identity fraud out of her bank account and had to come in and sign some papers and got all her money back

[QVC1212]

@Skeletal_Wings I have to agree with you on this issue. I think perhaps at least one member is being slightly more overprotective than the situation warrants, and if that over-protectiveness involves a small but significant degree of paranoia, then I think the question becomes what would warrant such paranoia? It seems entirely logical that a case report to the police would be required before Western Union (or your bank) returns five-thousand dollars stolen by a criminal. Five-thousand is no small chunk of change.

If you have made WU purchases for drugs in the past, that doesn't excuse a random criminal from robbing you blind. You are entitled to the return of your funds, which if they came out of your bank through a linked debit card (my online WU account is linked to my debit card) then you are not liable for any of the missing money. My advice is to follow the steps your bank and WU provide, and get your money back.

Why would law enforcement conspire with Western Union to steal all of your money? It would be so much easier to either do a controlled delivery, or block the transfer of funds outright and ban you from Western Union forever. Read the papers carefully---so long as they're not incriminating, go ahead and sign them. Bring a lawyer along, if you are that concerned. But I think you need not be . . . unless you've been doing some heavy duty drug trafficking. If you've been bringing in pills by the thousands, or re-selling your purchases on the street, I would think long and hard (and seek the advice of an attorney) before you try to recoup the funds. If you've sent a few hundred dollars to baja california norte a couple of times, or Argentina, that proves nothing. Order a few codeine pills from Amazon? I wouldn't worry about that.

More troubling to me would be the fact that my WU account was hacked. First, you have to decide if it was someone in the family or friends who could easily discover the passwords. Or was it social hacking---did someone call or write to you and trick you into "confirming" a password, a common scam to which skeletal_wings was referring. Either way, and I do not think this is paranoia, you have to assume that every bit of information stored on your computer has been compromised. Your passwords to every financial institution, paypal, ebay, amazon, credit cards, everything. There could be an email w/ a link you opened which self-installed key-logging software with which the criminals gained access. In that case, your whole computer is compromised. Even your email could be compromised. And if it's not, a subpoena could easily provide access to LE, and if you're like me (lazy) you probably have records of your pharmacy purchases in your email. Even if it's deleted, unless you're really, really good, I mean really good, if LE decides to seize your computer, you could be in trouble. But that's only if LE was interested in it, which I doubt.

How do you cleanse your computer of viruses, trojan horses, key-logging software, put up a near-invulnerable firewalls, protect your accounts, trace criminal access? These answers are far beyond the scope of my novice computer expertise. All I know is, assume every bit of financial info on your computer has been compromised, and go from there. Use some of that recovered money and bring in an expert consultant.

[kineticode]

We are talking about a person that has been buying illegal drugs using WU,not someone buying shoes on E-bay!If they need to see her computer to track the last person that received the funds from WU,It could lead them to a well known Mexican drug dealer.That is why MG and WU are so risky,because it has names,addresses,and locations(MEXICO),which will throw up red flags right in their faces.I always said caution is a brother to paranoia.Nothing wrong with covering your @ss.

[QVC1212]

@kineticode That is a good point. But if you are right---if they needed to see the computer---they would be screwing themselves. Even using a computer to commit a crime is a felony in and of itself (although it's worded in more sophisticated legalese). Legal fees are in the thousands. But five-thousand is a lot of money to give up in order to sleep well at night, sure that LE will not uncover illegal activities on the computer.

What if they were to buy hard drive scrubbing software that would wipe the hard drive, and then physically destroy the computer itself and burn and scatter its remnants all over the city? Could they sign these documents with less fear of discovery of criminal acts? I would hate to see them go to jail, but I loathe the idea of letting a cybercriminal walk away scott-free with five-thousand hard-earned dollars.

I suppose if you want to err on the side of caution, @kineticode is right. If the 5 thousand is just returned with a signature on a document saying it was stolen, that's one thing. But if it launches some sort of criminal investigation, then LE might start turning up rocks one at a time, and there might be some nasty, incriminating things under one or two of them. Which may lead back to the victim of this cybercrime. And that may be worse than losing 5 thousand dollars.

The rise in population here on PR has brought with it new challenges, new questions posed, and quandaries which I've never encountered before. I think before DB went down I'd rarely find a question I couldn't answer (that I was interested in answering) with confidence. But this new question about the hacking, massive financial loss, and it's possible connection to recent criminal transactions raises more questions than it does answers. I can't help but feel that there is a piece of the puzzle missing too. Something that would shed light on this situation.

So you can go right or go left, or do nothing. I'm sorry, but I cannot advise with any level of confidence on how to proceed. One thing I am sure of though, and that is I would act. I would do something. I would not take it lying down. If I had to lawyer up to be cautious, I would do it, but I would act. One implication of @kineticode and his/her statement that you should err on the side of caution, however, is that you MUST act, at least a little bit. Your records, passwords, computer, assume they've been compromised---assume it all. Take steps to protect everything. Then decide if 5 grand is too much to lose, and how desperately you might need it back. Remember, it's not what you did, it's what they can prove.

I'm a bit of a gambling man (thought I never gamble). I would gamble that I could get my money back, and try for it. To the hell with it. If I wipe and dump the computer, but they still dig up evidence of illegal activity, then I'd take the 5 grand returned to me, and put it toward legal expenses. I'm way, way too vindictive to just let those bastards walk away with that much money---to do so is to let them prey on your fear, capitalize on the knowledge of your behavior if in fact they have any. Forget pulling a gun on them and paying those bastards back---you're so afraid you won't dial the police. You're not some big-time trafficker (I hope). If you're not, get your daggone money back!

[Blockhead]

Unless I'm missing something, couldn't this all have been avoided by conducting money transfers in person and not on line such as I do. Just curious and hope all works out for the victim here.

[Lynx4]

I don't think they need to see his/her computer. I've been the victim of this twice in my life (in the last 13 years) and there was nothing suspicious about filling out a police report or filling out paperwork. The paperwork usually is just making you swear that YOU didn't take the $5,000 out and now want to say it's fraud. The police report is usually required so that if the OP is a fraud and did this themselves there are legal ramifications.

Not sure why everyone is getting so upset just because it's Western Union. I used my cc to buy items from Friendly Clinic monthly and other OPS for Tramadol but when someone got my information and bought over $4,000 worth of stuff on my card they didn't go back through every transaction I ever did. They concentrated purely on the transactions that were fraudulent.

One case was with my debit card and my bank called. They said it looked like some activity might not be ours going by the way we usually use our card (that's how they figure out someone might be using your card). They read off the transactions and we said Yes or No to each item over the previous 3 days and those items that we didn't buy were credited back to us.

Go to Western Union, call the cops and make a report and get all your money back. No one is going to look through all your previous transactions. That's not the point of it. They will look at the transactions that were fraudulent. Most likely there won't even be any ISP tracing. When money was stolen from my cc and used solely to make online purchases they didn't try to trace the ISP. They gave me the money back onto my credit card, said obviously someone had either figured out our info, hacked the computer or one of the online sites I used stole the money (in the end I figured it out and it was a site I used to buy some makeup from that went on a shopping spree with my card).

For goodness sakes, lets don't break down over a case of fraudulent activity. This happens daily, especially if someone shops online long enough. A site might not be secure and then you are open to some serious problems, and sometimes there are employees who steal the info and go shopping. I paid $3,000 on someone's phone bill and bought them a satellite dish and some Victoria's Secrets items There's also the problem with wireless now and someone can sit outside close to your house and feed off of your wireless connection.

You will get your money back and probably sooner rather than later. I know it's scary being in the negative in your bank account. Fill out all the paperwork (I think we had to get one of the pages notarized too), get your money back and close that WU account. It's going to be okay.

[Alternate]

I would be curious if there are reports of any other WU hacks/fruadulent
transfers.

WU has a responsiblility to keep the info private and should have
lots of computer security to keep this from happening.

There have been groups that have been hacking into companies
(Playstation accounts) but your situation involved a hack and
a stealing of $5,000.00.

I also thought WU would not allow that much of a transaction
at once, why was that not in place.

(just figured out my post sentences are so short will let stop shortening sentences).

Also who picked up or was the designated recipient of this
amount of money.

Your credit/debit card should have some safeguards in place
to let you know that much is being charged. We have had banks
call us when any suspicious/different activity is happening.
Where was your bank safeguards during this?

More questions for WU and your bank than for you.

But do agree, if (big if) and not my business, you had major
orders and lots of funds going back and forth of frequent
(can't do huge amounts with WU) amounts this would
be handled differently by you.

Consulting an attorney might be in order as someone suggested.

It is called possession with intent to distribute (intent
is easier to prove than actually doing it) and sometimes
large amounts of product is all they need.

Maybe having anything WU, MG, Paypal, with a feed right
into your credit/debit account is probably not a good idea
now with all the hacking going on.

[DulyNoted]

I know the horse is out of the barn already but knowing how surprisingly unorganized WU the only way I ever use them is with cash in person at an agent location.

[Alternate]

Read more details and would definitely check your online banking, savings, places you purchase, MG, Paypal and call to make sure you did not have a private hack (identity theft by the way is usually done by someone the person knows).

Make sure your other items are not being drained right now.

Others have reported that they have had to report a fraudulent theft on their credit cards, etc...

Call your police station and ask where you go to file a fraudulent theft on your WU account and they will tell you what department you go to. You can even ask what sort of papers you have to sign. Remember you are going to the Police Dept. Take someone with you (child/friend/family member) and go.

Once you are there you just fill out the papers. Someone mentioned they just had the fraudelent items mentioned. There are far too many shady things that law enforcement could care less about but show up on our credit cards - I doubt they have time/manpower (hopefully you are not in a small town with a bored sheriff) to go into detail of what you were ordering with your WU.

[Jeremy Fisher]

@snowangel308, when I have fraud on a cc, I only have had to sign papers which are mailed to me confirming I did not make that charge from the cc company. The card is cancelled and the # is changed. The charges were put on hold, pending receipt of my signed papers.

W/the bank, I met w/them in person and got the autodeductions reversed immediately and signed papers w/the bank. I was able to keep the same checking account #. The police not involved in either situation.

Now my cc fraud issues were at most $1200.00. My bank fraud totaled about $400.

Perhaps $5k is a an amount that requires a police report be filed. I would ask some question as to why police involvement is necessary. Could be the amount or a WU policy or a state requirement. I would ask more questions and also check all other accounts, prior to involving the police. Understanding the whys is important. I would say simply that I am working to resolve this issue as quickly as possible as I need the $ returned asap to pay mortgage and bills, and if police involvement is not required, I would rather not go there as that could slow down the return of my $.

Was it a credit card used for these fraudulent charges or was the $ deducted from your bank account?

I know some think I and others are being paranoid, but the possibility of being charged w/acquisition of meds illegally over the net is not something to take lightly. Charges and lawyers would cost a lot more than 5K.

Fire

[Alternate]

post continued...

Also, call WU (as someone suggested) and ask in detail what papers you have to sign - they are bound to be called something official like a Fraudelent Report.

You might even be able to find a copy of what these are online.

Here is an interesting thing - do you have a portable small computer? Don't tell them that if they ask over the phone. The great things about computers is the desktops are attached bascially to all sorts of things. Most cases the LE have to get a warrant to obtain your desktop computer info.

I really doubt it would go anywhere near this type of situation.

There are way too many dubius tranactions going on all the time, purchases of gambling, porn, Cobras and other poisonous snakes, 'legal' medications, that customs and sometimes LE needs to be concerned with.

LE themselves, on their private time, indulge in shady purchases or at the very least they have family members who do so.

While getting the papers make sure you would just watch what you were being asked. You are there to sign a Fruadulent Form which you read - not answer a whole lot of questions. I am sure will be some bored officer/clerk just handing a form to you.

Also it it much tougher to prove you ordered something online, anyone could have done this, even the hacker that might have gotten into your computer if that is the case. Computer evidence is always contested in court vigorously. Would be way hard to prove in a court.

Whereas, a controlled delivery is easy and very provable and they have you right there.