The use of benzos for insomnia...

[lilylola]

I am wondering if anyone has chronic insomnia and has used benzos successfully long term to treat this problem?

I had anxiety-induced transient insomnia which became worse during a trauma a suffered. I went to the psychiatrist, who prescribed me Xanax for sleep. This was based on a family friend saying that he has been taking "a little" Xanax at night for 30 years. He now won't admit to having said this.

I was on it for about a year and some (taking 1mg nightly), until I started to gain tolerance, and decided to go off. The withdrawal lasted a month, and was really bad. I think it was made much, much worse in retrospect, by the fact that I wasn't sleeping, and to remedy that, I frequently took Ambien, which while it works, causes me to feel severely anxious and depressed if I take it more than once in a blue moon.

Then I went on Seroquel, which also worked wonderfully, but made me tired all the time and then stopped working. The rebound insomnia from Seroquel lasted 6 months! Now I am on month 7, and during a calm period, I noticed that I slept decently (still not as good as before I ever took the initial Xanax). Before I took anything, I used to sleep a solid 8 hours a night during non-stressful periods. Now, I sleep 6 hours, and if I am lucky, I can sleep another hour or two in pieces. This doesn't sound so bad, but I am someone who really needs 8-9 hours a night to feel like my normal self.

Anywho....

I noticed the best sleep I got was from mid-January to mid-March, when I took Klonopin 2-3 nights a week in addition to something called Somatomax, which you can order on Amazon. (Somatomax is by far the most potent natural sleep aid I have ever taken). If I don't take anything, I either don't sleep at all, or my sleep is very, very light with frequent awakenings, and I feel exhausted the next day.

Recently, I decided to throw away the Klonopins, as I was taking very little (.25mgs 2x a week). The next day, a very stressful situation happened with a friend, and I didn't sleep for 3 days straight. Finally, I got a hold of some Ambien, and wound up taking that for 4 days. I slunk into a major depression.

Recently, I have acquired Xanax bars, 2mg. Last night, I took 1.5mgs (I kept taking .5, but couldn't feel it) and knocked out for a full 8 hours. I feel hungover today, and don't want to get back in the habit, but that was the best sleep I have had in months.

I am wondering if anyone out there takes Klonopin or Xanax 2-3x a week (every few days) to help with sleep, and if this carries the same tolerance issues as when you take a benzo daily? I am hoping if I do this, I won't encounter days-long bouts of not sleeping. I'd rather not be on anything, but I am a social worker, and not sleeping is ruinous to my professional and social life. Not to mention, to my relationship with my boyfriend.

Thoughts?

Thanks for taking the time to read this!

I know it's a bit of a rant...

[Roswell1947]

I am wondering if anyone out there takes Klonopin or Xanax 2-3x a week (every few days) to help with sleep, and if this carries the same tolerance issues as when you take a benzo daily?

That's an excellent question that someone here will be able to answer.
I was on xanax 1mg daily for 25yrs now doing the Ashton taper with valium.
IMHO I'd do the 2 to 3 times weekly because for me my professional & social life
would be more important. Others might disagree. My .02

[Comfortably Numbed]

Hello there,
I take Klonopin or Valium every few nights to help me with sleep too. I'm afraid that if taken regularly that your body will still build up a tolerance over time, just not s quickly as if you were taking them daily, Klonopin especially can have up to a 50 hour half life, so if you have to take anything I think you are better off sticking to using them when you need them as oppose to every day, Insomnia is a bummer so I do feel for you, this is just what I have experienced myself.

[lilylola]

Thank you, yes. I would so much rather not take benzos, or take something else. I am going to meet with a new dr. in 2 weeks, and ask for Flexeril and Lyrica, but so far, every other medication I have taken has not put me to sleep. I have tried:

Trazodone (worked for 2 weeks, then stopped)
Mirtazipine/Remeron-Made me very sleepy and horrible feeling but did not knock me out
Temazepam-Made me feel weird and did not knock me out
Valium-Hate it. Too mild and I feel yucky from it.
Seroquel-worked very well for 5 months, then had terrible rebound insomnia for 6 months!
Elavil-Did nothing
Benadryl/Tylenol PM-Makes me feel weird and flat and I'll be up all night on it.
Wine-Doesn't work!
Valerian-Doesn't work
Melatonin 10mg-Doesn't work
Ambien-Works great, causes debilitating anxiety and depression the next day
Sonata-Doesn't work
Lunesta-Stops working after a couple of days, and causes the same reaction as Ambien
Gabapentin-Made me twitch all night
Doxepin-Same reaction as with Remeron

I'm sure there's more, but I can't think of them...

Argh : )

[Comfortably Numbed]

A lot of people swear by Xanax, or Zopiclone, I used zopiclone for 4 years, started off with one 7.5mg a night and boy did they work, after about a year they became less effective so I took 2 a night, then gradually up to 4 a night as my tolerence built, so I began taking Diazepam just 1 10mg on a night with only 1 zopiclone to wean me off them as I became worried about dependance, and it worked, now I just take a couple of sleepers or Diazepam a few times a week ( I suffer from Anxiety too so the Diazepam kills two birds with one stone )
Hope you find something that suits you, not being able to sleep affects your day to day life as you well know, so its like a vicious circle!
Good luck lily.

P.S Forgot to mention that Zopiclone have an horrible very bitter after taste that can last days!

[Utopiate]

I'm lucky I guess in that I have a physician who allows me to switch hypnotics every so often to avoid tolerance and reduce dependence. I switch between triazolam, zolpidem and temazepam with soma and ondansetron as unofficial pinch hitters. It's a system that's worked for me for years but I haven't heard of many other prescribers going along with this sort of agenda.

I have alprazolam to take during the day for anxiety but it's not a daily thing. I do have to weigh whether or not I've taken any of that during the day before I decide to take a hypnotic or whether to take a half dose.

You sound pretty sensitive to this kind of medication. Not necessarily on an immediate basis but it seems to affect you later with depressions. Maybe you ought to talk with your doc about a super short acting hypnotic like sonata. Triazolam is pretty short acting too.

My experience is that there will usually be some kind of price to pay for the sleep. When I take zolpidem (ambien) regularly my short term memory suffers. Soma is only good for a night or two, and so on.

Of course there's more to it than just medications. Is your mattress comfortable? If you share a bed, is that a factor? Room temperature, apnea, pets, ambient noise . . . plenty of things to consider other than just hypnotic medication.

Good luck! Hope you get some good rest soon!

[RedBaron]

I find etizolam to be very effective, and incredibly cheap from the right places. To me it's like 'Xanax PM'.

I'm not a big fan of the Z-types though, like zolpidem and zopiclone. The side effect profile is a bit high for my comfort.

Many people like trazadone, but that gave me a bad reaction once. Very pale, sweaty, heart-racing, and nauseous from a normal dose, after taking it for a few days prior with no problems until then. Definitely didn't help with sleep... lol. Haven't taken it since.

[Roswell1947]

@lilylola
I re-read your post and .25mg clonazepam (Klonopin) is a relatively small amount.
I'd stick with that for it's longer half life 50 hrs and less addicting
than xanax. Besides it's also 25% of the 1mg xanax dosage in
the benzo equivalent tables.
I used to take Klonopin/Rivotril/clonazepam and 1 mg
was just right for about 6 to 8 hrs.
The fact that you can get by on .25mg would be a safer option than 1mg xanax.
Again JMO.

[GoingBananas]

I have had extensive experience with this subject.
I have studied these issues for years both personally and in college. Utopiate has the most similar experiences with regard to effectiveness that I have found so i will not repeat them.

There is almost universal agreement that sleep meds all lose efficacy over time.
All of them.
Also, the sleep medications that seem to work the best for sleep are (surprise) those that have been tested and studied for treating sleep as first line medications and
not side effects. This flies in the face of what most Dr.s want to prescribe. So, I first made sure to go to professionals who knew about sleep.

Sedatives (Benzos,hyponotics, newer first line sleep drugs.) are the ones that work best and there is a great chart out there that depicts in order from most effective to least effective just like the opiate chart that is used in medical schools if you want you can google it.

The best thing i have found is to test things and document my results objectively and then add or subtract an ngredient and give it a fair trial to see of it works.

The hardest part with sleep is that after a few nights we start to panic and want to give up or switch to something else.
I used to do this and I found that nothing worked.
My anxiety increased and I slept worse than ever while taking more medication than ever because I gave nothing a fair shake.

Finally, i came to the breaking point.
I said if I don't sleep ever again so be it.
Nothing I can do about it.
Pretty drastic and dramatic yes.
However, t took away some of the power the anxiety had over me concerning sleep.

So, I started with stepping up the exercise and taking only ambien one time per night.
Then I alternated ambien with restoril every other week and went from there.
All with the help of a very understanding dr and some sleep studies and everything else I could find and read.

I eventually added a stimulant in the morning at a low does to get me going because I would abuse the bad sleep end by laying in bed part of my morning too much and not wearing myself out out enough during the day.

It took years but I sleep better than ever.
I thought that could never happen.
I remember saying to people that they did not get it.
I had REAL insomnia that they would never understand.
Wrong.
I just needed to be willing to go all the way.

I started looking at it like an experiment.
Maybe, I could find some things that others could be helped by and that made it seem less depressing too.

I hope this helps somebody,

Message me if I can help more.

Thank you,

Kyle

[audacity]

I am wondering if anyone out there takes Klonopin or Xanax 2-3x a week (every few days) to help with sleep, and if this carries the same tolerance issues as when you take a benzo daily?

With Xanax, that will help keep tolerance in check to some extent. With Klonopin, tolerance will still occur because 3 times a week is basically like taking a lower dose almost every day because of the long half life. With Xanax, there's a break in between because it gets cleared out pretty quick. With sleep benzos, you want the shortest half-life that keeps you asleep. That will lower your brain total exposure over time, and lessen tolerance.

The problem is, how do you pick which 2 or 3 days out of the week to take the medicine? And why are able to sleep the other 4 to 5 days? Insomnia doesn't know what day it is. Just saying this because 2-3x can drift into 4-5x, and so on...

[Enzob]

Maybe the key to get a good sleep every nights is to eat well and exercise at least 4 hours per week. It Makes the toxins to go out of your body by sweating. Also seroquel in small dose is good too

[lilylola]

Thank you! All so helpful! So, the Z drugs, while they are extremely effective, cause me terrible next day depression and anxiety. I have tried Ambien & I have tried Lunesta. Same experience. I once tried Sonata, and it seemed too weak, but I have a feeling it would possibly cause the next day depression. I have a friend with Fibromyalgia who takes Ambien nightly, and it works great for her...no problems at all! I really wish I was like her, but I finally had to accept that I am not, and need to stay far away from the Zs. The more I take them, the deeper I sink into intractable depression.

Seroquel works extremely well also, but I will NEVER take it again, as taking 50mg regularly for 5 months caused me 6 months of rebound insomnia that was like nothing I ever experienced before.

Sedating ADs just plain old don't work, neither do natural remedies, with the exception of Somatomax (For those with maintenance insomnia, you will LOVE Somatomax-just make sure you take half the dose).

I do need to exercise! I was exercising 1 hour a day a couple of months ago, and I hope to return to that, but when you're not sleeping, it's very hard to motivate in that direction. But I'm hoping that I will have the energy very soon...

*This post was auto-merged. The following text was added 4 minutes after the last post:*

So I guess the question now, is whether to go with Klonopin or Xanax? I've been using Klonopin for the last 6 months intermittently, and whenever I stop, BAM! Insomnia comes back, even taking .25mgs 3x a week. (Although, admittedly, there have been weeks where I have taken .5-1mg 3x a week.) I am also wondering if anyone thinks psychotherapy would help? At least for the anxiety piece? Has anyone found it to be helpful? I, myself, am a licensed psychotherapist, and would like to go in a psychodynamic direction; ie; examine childhood issues. This may or may not have any effect on my sleep, though...

[mlewis]

I have insomnia/anxiety as well... Ive had to rotate meds to keep off the tolerance building cycle.. lately I do 2mg klonipan, with a shot of honey whiskey.. sleep amazing, wake up with no xany style hangover...

Ambien gave me the horrible night terrors... unfortunately for my man.. I didnt know it... just bawling and crying hysterically inconsolably in my sleep... and though I would stay asleep for many hours... didnt get any rest

Also... from what I was told, somatomax is being discontinued....

[auskick]

ts give lorazapam a try.. ive tried vals, xanax, temazpan, and while the xanax probably knocks me out the best the loraz gives leaves me less grogy the nexy day and really helps me relax into a restful sleep.

i like your idea of oly taking a benzo 3 times a week... ive heard benzo withdrawl is intense.

[lilylola]

Hm. Lorazepam seems a little too weak when I take it, but thank you! Oy vey. I better stock up on the Somatomax-that stuff REALLY helps extend length and depth of sleep. I'm still on the fence about whether to go with Klonipin or Xanax. Sounds like Klonopin causes more tolerance, due to the 50 hour half life, and Xanax would be out of my system more quickly. However, Xanax packs a much stronger punch than Klonopin, and gets me to sleep. I have gone through a Xanax withdrawal, and it was NOT fun at all. But I think it was mostly terrible due to the fact that I was taking Ambien to sleep, which probably exacerbated the side effects. I did have tinnitus, though...

Anyway, I have about 40 bars of 2mg Xanax in my possession currently, and I am going to see the Dr. on Saturday, and I will ask for Klonopin. I am also going to ask for Flexeril and Lyrica. Does anyone know if Lyrica is anything like Gabapentin? Gabapentin kept me up all night with muscle spasms/twitching...awful.

[audacity]

@lilylola Pick Xanax over Klonopin. Klonopin will lose its effectiveness as a sleep aid more quickly, and its long half life means it will accumulate in your body.

[lilylola]

Thank you, audacity. I would say that Klonopin lost its effectiveness as a sleep aid long ago; I think I was just taking it every few days to keep from having this insomnia rebound effect. When I took Xanax for a year, it never lost its effectiveness, well, until I went into tolerance mode and had to withdraw. I know that problem occurred from daily use. I'm thinking if I don't use it daily, that won't happen. Hopefully.

[mani]

Hm. Lorazepam seems a little too weak when I take it, but thank you! Oy vey. I better stock up on the Somatomax-that stuff REALLY helps extend length and depth of sleep. I'm still on the fence about whether to go with Klonipin or Xanax. Sounds like Klonopin causes more tolerance, due to the 50 hour half life, and Xanax would be out of my system more quickly. However, Xanax packs a much stronger punch than Klonopin, and gets me to sleep. I have gone through a Xanax withdrawal, and it was NOT fun at all. But I think it was mostly terrible due to the fact that I was taking Ambien to sleep, which probably exacerbated the side effects. I did have tinnitus, though...

Anyway, I have about 40 bars of 2mg Xanax in my possession currently, and I am going to see the Dr. on Saturday, and I will ask for Klonopin. I am also going to ask for Flexeril and Lyrica. Does anyone know if Lyrica is anything like Gabapentin? Gabapentin kept me up all night with muscle spasms/twitching...awful.

I use Lyrica sometimes for sleep issues and find it works for me. However the best sleep aid, IMO is still Zopliclone,but with any benzo/Z drug I find tolerance builds up quickley, so try and use it sparingly.

Of course opiates also work well, but again I don't advise you going down this road. @lilylola - youv'e seemed to have used nearly all options open to you, but for me insominia sometimes can effect me worse if I get up late and do nothing. If I get up early and keep myself busy during the day I obviously find sleeping alot easier.

I hope you find a solution. Insominia is such a bummer.

[TenaciousE]

Both my Mother and Husband have been taking Xanax for insomnia for sometime now. My Mother two years. My Husband six months. I see no evidence of tolerance or dependency with them.

Ironically both HATED Klonopin. Klonopin is really not a PRN benzo. Off course it may work like that for some...but it is usually the benzo of choice to manage anxiety theraputically for long term treatment.

[lilylola]

Aven~do they take it daily or PRN???

Mani-Z drugs cause me to feel severely depressed, but yes, they do work, I just can't take them.

*This post was auto-merged. The following text was added 2 minutes after the last post:*

Opiates, interestingly, don't put me to sleep. They wake me up! I love them, but not for sleep, and I don't use anything recreationally anymore, even alcohol, for fear it will mess up my sleep : )