Which is better for sleep, Klonopin or Valium?

[lilylola]

Ideally, I'd like to get off everything, but I know that Valium is on the bottom of the taper according the the Ashton method. Therefore, I would like to transition to Valium for sleep use as needed. (I have tried every sleep med there is, natural and unnatural, so no advice needed there). I find that Xanax works the best, but leaves a hangover, and I really don't want to take it, as I went through a Xanax w/d 2 years ago that was HELL. Klonopin works initially, but then stops working for sleep. How does Valium compare? I realize all the benzos have different properties. And I do plan to use it intermittently (ie;2-3x a week, as needed). Thoughts?

[teresita]

@Lilylola I dont know if valium will help you to sleep unless taken in higher doses. I take as a muscle relaxer because muscle relaxers that I have been prescribed in the past made me way too groggy to function. I take 5mg valium as needed to loosen up and I dont really get sleepy but 10mg will make me a little sleepy. I agree with you not wanting to take xanax, I was in that boat 6 yrs ago and while tapering down, I accidentally washed my pill bottle with my last couple of weeks worth in them and went cold turkey and it was the worst thing I ever went through.

I really dont know what would induce sleep that wouldnt put you in another dependency problem. Ambien didnt work? When lunesta first came out, I had insomnia issues (back while I was on xanax) and it did work but the metal mouth taste it left was so horrible I couldnt take it.

You could try valium and make sure you have no caffeine products after a certain time in the early afternoon and eat a dinner high in complex carbs and low protein. I have read that is best for the sleep issues.

Other than that I dont know too many sleep remedies other than natural methods, warm baths, warm milk, etc. I dont suffer from insomnia anymore just sleep deprivation so I need to find things (legal) to keep me awake and ready to run.

Insomnia really is a bummer. Im so glad I overcame it but I think that is because I exhaust myself so much with being a midnight worker, on my feet and active most of the time. But if you choose to excersize, dont do it right before bedtime, it may give you a second wind and keep you up longer.

Good luck to you. Oh, Klonopin is the one anti-anxiety med I dont think I have ever tried.

[Chancer]

This week I have tried 20mg of valium..didn't work
500mcg of Xanax...didn't work
Tonight I am trying 1mg of Roche Riotril so I will let you know how this goes.

If anyone has any other suggestions I would be grateful because I am a bit bipolar hypomanic atm and don't know how much longer I can go without at least six hours uninterupted sleep :-(

[LiquidOrgasm]

Lunesta 3mg XR

[Chancer]

Lunesta 3mg XR

Never heard of Lunesta so I will look into it thanks :-)

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Lunesta 3mg XR

Just googled it, apparantly its not available in the UK yet so will have to do a bit more research into sources etc..will let you know how it goes!

[blivet]

Never heard of Lunesta so I will look into it thanks :-)

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Just googled it, apparantly its not available in the UK yet so will have to do a bit more research into sources etc..will let you know how it goes!

You might try zopiclone if Lunesta not available to you. They are not identical but they're comparable, and zopiclone is available in Europe (not sure about UK though).

[Quaalude]

Not an expert here but actually think neither Valium nor Klonopin would be GOOD choices for a good nights sleep. Both have incredibly long half-lives (hangover potential) and if you've been taking either one long enough, the sedative (sleepy, warm benzo buzz) tends to go away. I'd stick with a z-drug, Ambien, Lunesta, perhaps a quick acting benzo like Halcion if you can get you hands on some. When I first started taking Klonopin I was drowsy--not like fall over, knock me unconscious drowsy but "tired" would be a better word for it. I don't experience that at all now and perhaps I've built a tolerance. It still works fantastic for my anxiety/panic along side my daily dose of Effexor. They've been miracle drugs for me and really helped to turn my life around. Guess they were just a "good fit" for my particular body chemistry and God knows, everyone's different. Cheap, generic Ambien is hard to beat for sound night's sleep, and Lunesta if you've got good insurance (or can flat out afford it). Always wanted to give Lunesta a try myself but WAY TOO far over my current budget for a nightly sleep aid. Perhaps when it finally falls off patent!

The best of luck & great health!

Q

[NotMyRealName]

I second the Z class drugs. Generic Ambien is available for as little as $1-2 each and they work really well for the occasional sleepless night.

[etinin]

I'm for midazolam (Versed, Dormicum).
Since you're having trouble, I'd recommend a 30mg dosage. Sure to put you out and the short half-life usually prevents hangover.

[COSGringo]

Yup. Zolpidem (generic Ambien) would be my suggestion. Benzo's are addictive. I hear they say that about Ambien but I think it's more of a need it for sleep issue. I would not take it every night. Maybe some OTC stuff here and there or a long lasting benzo. Restoril or Midozolam.
Zopiclone or Lunesta is just horrible on the taste buds. If you don't mind the taste of a old nickel sitting on the back of your tongue for 12 hours then go for it. It's almost impossible to avoid that at least it was for me.

[Perromaldido]

Valium is definitely my favourite antianxiety medication, and I rate it way above Kpins. Although it's sort of off label for treating insomnia.... there's been a time in my life when I'd take 5x10s Vs and sleep well. I also had a ten here and there during the day so this is obviously not subtsainable long term. According to your current tolerance you may want to try some hypnotic meds...you made clear that you know all the sleeping meds out there, so does Midazolam help? Though it has a short half life nothing can beat it for me...just in case you haven't tried that specific one....

Perromaldido

[Chancer]

You might try zopiclone if Lunesta not available to you. They are not identical but they're comparable, and zopiclone is available in Europe (not sure about UK though).

That what the doctor always gives me but, unfortunately this didn't seem to work and i was prescribed 15mg which i believe is a high dose...I think i am just going to ask my doctor for liquid temazepam because this was the only thing that worked in the past because it worked quickly...even if he gives me enough for a few days just to get some sleep and slow down the mania which i know will come after the hypomania then nothing will help! Do you think this is a reasonable request?
I'm not really a negative person but, I am starting to get so scared that I will end up manic and I have so many plans the next few weeks...festival and amsterdam holiday so I just don't need it completely f up my social life, which does actually keep me sane.
Sorry if im being a deputy downer and i genuinely appreciate all and any suggestions members are kind enough to spend their time giving.


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Valium is definitely my favourite antianxiety medication, and I rate it way above Kpins. Although it's sort of off label for treating insomnia.... there's been a time in my life when I'd take 5x10s Vs and sleep well. I also had a ten here and there during the day so this is obviously not subtsainable long term. According to your current tolerance you may want to try some hypnotic meds...you made clear that you know all the sleeping meds out there, so does Midazolam help? Though it has a short half life nothing can beat it for me...just in case you haven't tried that specific one....

Perromaldido

I have to admit I obviously don't know all the sleep meds out their because I know the name Midazolam but, don't know anything about it, is it used in the UK?

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I just had a look into it but, I don't think I found the right one because it mentioned IV use and not much about pills in uk.
Will go to my IOP tonight and just order the strongest sleeping pills they have, been putting it off because they are so expensive for the decent ones.

Thanks for everyone help :-)

[COSGringo]

@Chancer
There is a pill form of midazolam. Not sure about what they prescribe in the UK.
I hate to even mention this because a lot of folks are are really against this med but some love it.
You could look at 12-25 mg of Seroquel. It works for me when nothing else will. If I keep the dose low I don't feel like a zombie the next day. It's off label use for insomnia. It's an anti psychotic which is why some folks really hate it. For some, it really does work.

[Perromaldido]

Hi Chancer, it goes by the name of Dormicum, it's a Roche product which comes in 7,5 and 15mg. I don't know its status there in the uk. Over here it's an hospital med only which comes in vials. The good thing is that there are many IOPs stocking them. I've never seen a generic around, it's only roche

Perromaldido

[chuckv64]

This is always an interesting topic because if you are talking about occasional usage like a couple times a week any benzo will work well in a decent strength. 10mg valium, or 2mg klonopin are both excellent for inducing sleep when used sporadically. But if we are talking nightly use then benzos are the wrong choice because after as few as 4 nights in a row many people will find any benzo less sedating & eventually will notice little if any sedation. I have used them successfully for sleep issues by never using them 2 nights in a row or more than 3 times a week & jumping between 3 or 4 different ones like valium, klonopin, & ativan.

[Revert]

The problem with Klonopin and Xanax is that they are some of the strongest benzos manufactured. So if you have been taking them for months, even intermittently Valium may not be strong enough to induce sleep. The point of the Ashton method is to slowly crossover to Valium.

If you want to stick to benzos for sleep than I would suggest using the hypnotic class of benzos which are prescribed specifically for sleep, these are:

Temazepam
Nitrazepam aka Mogadon

Then when you are ready begin the Ashton Method. I believe she has a taper plan for both Temazepam and Nitrazepam.

[Dankstar]

Xanax is faster acting which is why I like it more

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But then again klonopin has that smooth steady high. I'm not sure now that I think about it more. Let's take both and find out. Jk

[afcmcp]

The only thing that works for me is a taking one 2 mg Lorazepam and one 1mg xanax.. I SLEEP like a baby but can still wake up at night if I need to.

If I take ONLY the Xanax I am wide awake by 2:00 am

Also if I take only the Lorazepam I am not out until 3:00AM - The combo WORKS and this is year 14 for me so it works LONG term.

Ideally, I'd like to get off everything, but I know that Valium is on the bottom of the taper according the the Ashton method. Therefore, I would like to transition to Valium for sleep use as needed. (I have tried every sleep med there is, natural and unnatural, so no advice needed there). I find that Xanax works the best, but leaves a hangover, and I really don't want to take it, as I went through a Xanax w/d 2 years ago that was HELL. Klonopin works initially, but then stops working for sleep. How does Valium compare? I realize all the benzos have different properties. And I do plan to use it intermittently (ie;2-3x a week, as needed). Thoughts?

The only thing that works for me is a taking one 2 mg Lorazepam and one 1mg xanax.. I SLEEP like a baby but can still wake up at night if I need to.

If I take ONLY the Xanax I am wide awake by 2:00 am

Also if I take only the Lorazepam I am not out until 3:00AM - The combo WORKS and this is year 14 for me so it works LONG term.

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Never heard of Lunesta so I will look into it thanks :-)

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Just googled it, apparantly its not available in the UK yet so will have to do a bit more research into sources etc..will let you know how it goes!

In the UK the REVERSE molecule of Lunesta is sold and it is called ZOPICLONE (darn patent laws in the USA) made by ratiopharm, Germany> Take the 7.5MG pills just about 2 minutes before bed time, before you can say "This is not working" your out cold! Very fast acting! (Warning: IT TASTES LIKE 'METAL' but this is normal for ZOPICLONE) hope it helps.

[afcmcp]

This week I have tried 20mg of valium..didn't work
500mcg of Xanax...didn't work
Tonight I am trying 1mg of Roche Riotril so I will let you know how this goes.

If anyone has any other suggestions I would be grateful because I am a bit bipolar hypomanic atm and don't know how much longer I can go without at least six hours uninterupted sleep :-(

Try ZOPICLONE - only available in EUROPE

If anyone has any other suggestions I would be grateful because I am a bit bipolar hypomanic atm and don't know how much longer I can go without at least six hours sleep

[lilylola]

@Chancer
There is a pill form of midazolam. Not sure about what they prescribe in the UK.
I hate to even mention this because a lot of folks are are really against this med but some love it.
You could look at 12-25 mg of Seroquel. It works for me when nothing else will. If I keep the dose low I don't feel like a zombie the next day. It's off label use for insomnia. It's an anti psychotic which is why some folks really hate it. For some, it really does work.

NO NO NO on Seroquel. I took 50mgs a night for 5 months straight, it worked great until it stopped working, and that is the reason I have these sleep problems. It's been 7 months off Seroquel, and I still don't sleep the way I slept prior to it. I hope it's not permanent. But yes, initially, it works like nothing else for insomnia. But I believe it has caused me terrible problems which are taking a really long time to correct.

The Z drugs do not give me good sleep, and cause atrocious next day depression and anxiety. I have tried EVERYTHING except GHB.

Temazepam didn't touch my insomnia, unfortunately.

Basically, what I've gathered from this post, and what I know from experience, is that you have to juggle your poisons to sleep. And hopefully, get as much natural sleep in as possible.

As a side note, my history: I originally had anxiety-based periodic insomnia that I found debilitating. I couldn't tolerate my 1-3 nights of insomnia per month, which now, sounds like a dream come true. For 10 years, I successfully used Ambien 1-5x a week when I had to get up for work to handle it. After a while, the Ambien began to cause next day anxiety and depression. Then, in 2010, I had a particularly horrible break-up and excruciating work stress at my social work job. A family friend told me that each night he takes "a little" Xanax for sleep, and had been for 30 years. Sounded good. I went to my stupid psychiatrist and told him about this friend. He wrote me a Xanax script just like that. I asked him, "What happens when I want to get off Xanax?" And he said, "We just wean you off...no problem." 13 insomnia-free months later, I built a tolerance. The joyride was over. I began to taper, which was the worst thing ever. And I couldn't sleep. I tried everything for sleep during that time, it was horrible. Finally out of desperation 1 month later, I called a rehab who told me they use Seroquel for sleep after benzo w/d. I asked for a Seroquel script, and got it. Things were great again! I was sleeping 9 hours a night and feeling peachy. Until 5 months later, when tolerance built and insomnia returned, and this time worse than with the Xanax w/d. 7 months later, and I have been juggling Ambien, Klonopin, occasional Xanax, and a remedy that I buy from Amazon called, "Somatomax" that has some phenibut in it. So that's me. The best sleep I get is when I take hardcore sedating meds, and even then, I wake up after 6 hours. If I'm lucky, I can get back to sleep for another hour or two. I am constantly tired to varying degrees daily. I wish I could go back in time and never have taken Xanax. I wish I could have the experience of sleeping one night without any meds or remedies, but that seems a pipedream.